dangerous dog: Where do I stand?

[Louisa]

I've seen uncontrolled staffordshire bull terrier and cross breeds attacking bigger sized dogs, it is nothing at all to do with the size or treating them as prey. I once saw a guy with a staff on the common in full daylight with a staff that went and attacked a black Labrador unprovoked. The best advice I can give with a staff, is to kick it in the painful region, as most attacking staffs are un-neutered males, young or old. Whilst I agree it isnt the dog that is at fault, I agree with an earlier post that this type of breed can inflict harm if in the wrong hands, therefore in my opinion this breed should be put on the dangerous dogs register. Controversial I know, and I have met many responsible staffy owners in my time, but the incident I saw with the Lab also involved a young toddler, and this was quite a few years ago.

Louisa.

[northlondoner]

Actually the more I read this post the more pssed off I get. It is outrageous that someone should feel free to threaten a woman and her daughter in this way. AM if it would help in any way I would be more than happy to come along and provide moral support if you wanted to report this. I am sure others feel the same way. Feel free to PM me

[genwilliams]

How horrible. Please report it - I can understand why you'd feel worried about it but as with any issue that involves a bully using threats to intimidate other people, the only way to stop them is to report them, and how do you know you won't run into this dog or its owner again? And this could have happened to other people as well. Don't let this awful dog owner get away with it. Owners like this give their dogs a bad name.

[Louisa]

Whilst I agree with the previous two posts that this sort of thing must be stopped, a single mum living with her daughter should must always put her and her childs safety as a first priority. I am sure the police would handle it with great care and be discreet, but please remember that this lady walks her dogs on a regular basis on the rye and she may need some firm reassurances. Whilst no one wishes to be treated in this way, sometimes going to the police is the easiest thing in the world from an outside perspective, but for the victim it isnt quite so easy.

Louisa.

[HAL9000]

Let's get some perspective here folks - it's a bit premature for a lynch mob.

We only have one side of the story and no independent confirmation that such an incident even took place. It wouldn't be the first time that the forum has been wound up by a clever troll.

Assuming AM is a genuine poster and a fair witness, surely there is a counter argument here: walking three small dogs that are unable to defend themselves against larger aggressors in this neighbourhood is an incident waiting to happen. An attack was inevitable given the number of aggressive breeds running around loose.

It is fair to assume that the owner of the staff loves his dog as much as AM loves her dogs and was probably quite upset at the sight of his old, toothless dog being beaten and kicked and then - according to the OP's account - being shouted at when he came to her assistance.

In conclusion, it was a dogfight, nobody got hurt, tempers flared and, hopefully, lessons have been learnt.

One would hope that AM invests in some spiked wolf collars if she intends to continue exposing her little doggies to such foreseeable dangers in the future - she now knows the answer to her own question: it isn't safe.

[SteveT]

AM wrote:- the authors of the uncaring posts are not dog lovers/owners so will never understand how we felt.

Actually one of them possesses a pit bull!

[SteveT]

HAL9000 post is most out of character,

he is usually very informative on all types of subject and is responsible for some wonderfully intelligent postings,

though like most of us he finds it difficult to write perfect posts all the time.

[Louisa]

HAL9000 - true we only have one side of the story, and any sort of preemptive strike without posession of all the facts would be a mistake, but based on what we have been told and taking it at face value, your suggestion that it was a "dogfight" is utter dribble, you know it and so does everyone else (based on the assumption this story is a true account of an alleged incident). Not only was it a vicious and unprovoked attack, but also a child was involved, imagine if a toddler had been present? Based on this account, regardless of the mans reaction, an aggressive breed has yet again been off the lead and attacked another dog that could easily have been a child.

Louisa.

[HAL9000]

If I had any say in the matter I would ban all the aggressive breeds and insist that all dogs are leashed in public places - but since they are free to run around loose and do present a real danger I think it prudent to take precautions and extra care when walking smaller, vulnerable dogs (and children) in and around these environs.

The OP has given her reasons for not wanting to report the matter to the police and I respect her wishes in that respect.

[giggirl]

AM had a traumatic experience with her daughter and she came onto the forum for advice. Next up, along came you with your insensitive post ready to have a good laugh at her expense. Now you follow up with a half-cocked and inflamatory argument that does not excuse your earlier crassness.

The worst of it is that I know for a fact that there are many many people in the area who are signed up to the forum but who are not prolific posters. Shall we assume therefore that they are all trolls? Because that will really bring new blood to the forum won't it?

There's a time and a place for everything and there are many theads on the forum where you can have a good laugh. But when someone comes on here and asks for help, then it's not the time and it's not the place.

And please don't play victim with your imagined "lynch mob" as it is your own words that you're being held accountable for.

[HAL9000]

I wasn't referring to myself - I'm saying don't lynch the staff owner before all the facts are in.

[giggirl]

Sorry, then I misunderstood the "lynch mob" comment. I do take on board your point that there may be a counter argument, it's the joke at the OP's expense that I'm not happy about.

[HAL9000]

Sometimes a little humour can take the edge off a distressing experience - I wasn't laughing at the OP's expense, rather inviting her to view the matter in a lighter vein.

[Louisa]

HAL9000 - I understand your position and I agree in many respects it is a more realistic approach to a problem which is often unavoidable. If an irresponsible owner takes an aggressive dog breed to the park and lets it run freely then there is little we can do other than to advise precaution to other dog owners and parents of small children. However, in an ideal world this should not have to be, and I think that the time is right for dog ownership rules to be tightened. I think a licence should come into force, and I think that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier should be added to the list of dangerous dogs. It would also be helpful if these people who own these breeds would put a muzzle on them in a public place, in fact it should be compulsory.

Louisa.

[SteveT]

It would also be helpful if these people who own these breeds would put a muzzle on them in a public place, in fact it should be compulsory.

I agree with Louisa.

[cassidy]

I to feel sorry for the op, his daughter and their dog in what seems to be a totally unprovoked and distressing incident and hope everyone is ok. However it never ceases to amaze me how one dog incident is now being turned in to a witch hunt of staffies yet again.

There are a large number of staffies around and despite what many people now believe most of them belong to responsible owners and are kept not just with children but with other animals as well and should not all be branded dangerous or their owners irresponsible just because of a small minority of irresponsible owners. You dont punish every car driver because one or two people drink and drive and it should be no different with dog owners.

Staffies in the right hands can be loyal, loving companions a great addition to any family and who are a joy to have and this can be shown by the number of them being re-homed from rescue centres.

The incident was terrible and especially frightening for the child and dog involved but it is not the action of all staffs and should not be seen as such

[hpsaucey]

But despite all this, MANY of the reported cases on this forum and elsewhere mention staffies. MUST be for a reason and I cannot believe its solely a witch hunt (and yes, I acknowledge that there are lovely dogs and responsible owners). I am sure that those witnessing attacks would mention where it was another type of dog involved.

Hope the OP, her daughter and their dog recover from the shock. I also hope they can find it in them to report the case - even anonymously if possible? I would hate to think that it happens again.

Helen

Hcassidy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I to feel sorry for the op, his daughter and their

> dog in what seems to be a totally unprovoked and

> distressing incident and hope everyone is ok.

> However it never ceases to amaze me how one dog

> incident is now being turned in to a witch hunt of

> staffies yet again.

> There are a large number of staffies around and

> despite what many people now believe most of them

> belong to responsible owners and are kept not just

> with children but with other animals as well and

> should not all be branded dangerous or their

> owners irresponsible just because of a small

> minority of irresponsible owners. You dont punish

> every car driver because one or two people drink

> and drive and it should be no different with dog

> owners.

> Staffies in the right hands can be loyal, loving

> companions a great addition to any family and who

> are a joy to have and this can be shown by the

> number of them being re-homed from rescue

> centres.

> The incident was terrible and especially

> frightening for the child and dog involved but it

> is not the action of all staffs and should not be

> seen as such

[first mate]

Something that looks like a staffy is not necessarily a staffy- it may be a crossbreed. This is the problem with banning dangerous dogs by breed or type. Many of these problem dogs are crossbreeds anyway- it would take a DNA test to know for sure whether a dog is a certain breed or not and that does not come cheap. Also, once you ban one fighting breed people move on to the next- what about Akitas, Sharpeis, American Bulldogs..... all currently legal, all arguably worse because they are people wary and guardy too, unlike Staffys which are people friendly.

I believe passionately that all dogs should be put on a lead once outside the front door, even at the threshold. No dogs offlead on any pavement or street. Dogs need to run so they should be allowed offlead in parks and owners have the choice whether to take a toy breed to the park or not. Clearly a toy may get all the exercise it needs pavement walking, or in a garden if you are lucky enough to have one. Dogs offlead on the street are a potential menace, primarily to other dogs but also to children.

[hpsaucey]

So we're back to getting dog licences and making sure that potential dog owners get training? Should be like passing your driving test. Then again, think new parents should be trained too! Seems ridiculous that you have to be trained to drive a car, but can be guardian/parent of a child or owner of a dog without any training!

[MitchK]

It's laughable that you are spending time discussing the breed of dog in this when it is clearly down to the breeding of the owner, or lack of it.

[Louisa]

Clearly it isnt just about the breed type, it is of course about responsible dog ownership. But I firmly believe if a responsible staffy owner has it appropriately muzzled if they believe it to be a menace to the wider world in a public place, the animal itself and everyone and everything around it are in a much better position. A dog licence would ensure that only responsible owners can keep dogs, and I would like to think any responsible owner of a staffordshire type breed would therefore understand it's temperament around children and other animals and act with discretion whether to keep it muzzled in a public place. By not having a licence, it shows from the off a clear neglect for the animal, and a lack of concern for everyone else from the owner of the animal. IMO not all staffys are bad, but any breed breed for fighting, or dog which shows severe aggression towards others should only be available to potential owners via a licence, which would in turn make it easier to keep a tag on those who are not taking appropriate care of the animal.

Louisa.

[tallulah71]

s

[slims]

i feel sorry for the owner of this dog,and the guy who had the staff was irresponsible.but i would like to say that a dog aggressive,does not make it people aggressive. i own a so called dangerous breed, i myself have experienced dogs trying to attack my dog. the owners tend to be middle class, who have toy breed,or little terriers. who dont have a care in the world,until my dog bites back,maybe we should have a forum about people who own these yappy dogs.

[first mate]

slims,

not a very helpful response to what should be a serious debate.

Any dog owner that lets their dog offlead in a park needs to know, more or less, how their dog is likely to react around other dogs and to monitor/control their dog accordingly.

I am guessing from your post that you own a staffy? You may well be aware that many dogs react badly to Staffs. Staffs, a bit like labradors, can be over familiar and rambunctious in a way other breeds find threatening, rude and dominant. The general body language/demeanour of a staffy is quite dominant and cocky. Staffs cannot help it, poor loves, it's how they've been bred to look and that strutting is what make them so popular with self-styled hard guy brigade. The last point makes me giggle because anyone who knows dogs is aware that Staffs are amongst the most biddable and easy of terriers where people are concerned and it needs little skill to handle them (though it does need a modicum of common sense), this is why so many boys are able to walk a "staff" beside them offlead, try doing that with a chihuahua!

I do agree though people with toy breeds should never forget they own a DOG and that other dogs view it as a DOG, so if a Chihuahua is allowed to run up snarling and snapping at a Rottweiler you cannot blame the Rottie if it has a go back, after all it is only a DOG. Chihuahua's can be like tiny gremlins in cute, furry outfits, very, very feisty.

[cate]

slims Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> i feel sorry for the owner of this dog,and the guy

> who had the staff was irresponsible.but i would

> like to say that a dog aggressive,does not make it

> people aggressive. i own a so called dangerous

> breed, i myself have experienced dogs trying to

> attack my dog. the owners tend to be middle class,

> who have toy breed,or little terriers. who dont

> have a care in the world,until my dog bites

> back,maybe we should have a forum about people who

> own these yappy dogs.

There is a difference between biting back and just warning another dog off. And yappy doesn't equal dangerous. Why do you own a dangerous breed? Is it a breed controlled under the Dangerous Dogs Act?