dangerous dog: Where do I stand?

[aquarius moon]

My teenage daughter and I were out walking our 3 small dogs this afternoon. Suddenly, a staffordshire bull terrier, charged through an open gate & grabbed one of my dogs around the neck & head. My daughter just screamed in panic. I didn't know what to do, but tried to open the dogs mouth to make it release my dog. It's jaws were locked like a vice & it had no intention of letting go. A child appeared from the garden & tried to pull the dog off, but could not do so. Then, a neighbour came out & I think he kicked the dog so that it let go. My dog was shaken, but ok. A few minutes later, the dogs owner appeared after hearing all the commotion. My daughter shouted at him, that he should not allow a vicious dog to be running loose. He replied that his dog was old & had no teeth (which was the only reason that my dog survived the attack)

He then verbally abused us, telling us not to walk our dogs near there again or he would 'slap us in the face & kick our dogs.

He called my daughter a c*** and told us to f*** off.

Unbelievable really, considering it was his dog attacking ours, totally unprovoked.

It is getting to the stage now where I am wondering if it is safe to walk small toy dogs anywhere. My dog could easily have been killed & we are afraid to venture down that same road again.

Any advice please?

[HAL9000]

Get a bigger dog?

[ImpetuousVrouw]

Did it really have no teeth?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I think you should report this to The Police.

[ImpetuousVrouw]

Or get a small one that looks like this:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs080.ash2/37320_405260661490_627771490_5045496_3216623_n.jpg

[ruffers]

Dog Warden? I'm guessing that's a Southwark thing.

[james.]

Horrible incident, the kind of thing I dread. DEFINITELY report it to the police. What road did this happen in?

[citizenED]

You must be shaken up after such an incident. You should report it.

As james asks, where was this?

[aquarius moon]

Our first thought was to report it to the police, but because of the aggressive response of the owner, I decided against it because of repercussions. I regularly walk my dogs in this area & because I have 3 identical ones (brothers), it would not be difficult to find out where we lived, if he asked around. Basically, I am too scared to report it, due to the way he behaved towards us.

Like I said, the owner informed me that the dog had no teeth & told me if it had, my dog would have been seriously hurt. It was still a very frightening experience because I thought that my dog was being choked to death & there was nothing I could do. Whether it had teeth or not, it was still trying to kill my dog. He is only a small yorkie cross.

We live the other side of peckham rye park.

[northlondoner]

Please report it to the police. The next time it could be someones two year old daughter.

[colonelchips]

Definitely report it and state to the police that you are concerned about the possible repercussions and they should be able to act accordingly.

[first mate]

I too would report it to the police. The guy used intimidating behavior and threatened you- he sounds like a bully and a visit from the police would do him good. He knows he was in the wrong but rather than apologise he chose to abuse you- that's what bullies do. How typical that he owns a staff and that the technique used to "control" his dog is to kick it- tells you everything you need to know about him. It is hard, but unless we take a stand against people like this they'll carry on with worse.

Staffs are not bad dogs, they are great with people and children but can be horrendous with other dogs, especially small ones that they treat as prey. They were originally developed to fight other dogs, bait bulls and for the rat pit. It is another example of someone owning a breed without taking responsibility for what the dog is capable of. anyone with a small dog is always on the lookout for staffs and the like, and their tendency to attack other dogs is why I get so angry when people insist on walking them offlead on the pavement.

Why not add this to the Safer Neighbourhoods Thread- the team could pay this guy a visit.

[aquarius moon]

-- moved topic --

[jimmy two times]

Stand as far away from the dog as is humanly possible.

[ImpetuousVrouw]

Lol, that took a minute for the penny to drop.

[bonniebird]

I totally understand where you are coming from aqauriusmoon, my dogs are toy breeds and are quite distinctive I too would be worried about repurcussions. I think dog on dog attacks aren't normally taken seriously unfortunately :'( if you or your child was bitten, they would do something about it. He does need to be reported, but I know how you feel, good luck, hope you and your dogs aren't traumertised by this:'(

[ianr]

> How typical that he owns a staff and that the technique used to "control" his dog is to kick it-

> tells you everything you need to know about him.

To my reading, it was a neighbour who possibly kicked the attacking dog. The owner reportedly appeared after that and threatened to "kick our dogs". I don't believe we've been given any evidence that the owner controls his own dog by kicking it. I'm not defending the owner.

AM, in your position I'd try talking to the local neighbourhood police team. You don't have to take any other action, or name names. You could just tell them the above facts, ask what actions you or they might take, consider any recommendations, and discuss likely consequences. I hope they'd be willing to talk to you on that basis. I'd be very disappointed if they didn't see that as part of their job.

The ironic thing is that, to my understanding, unless anyone was in fear of personal injury, the dog is not deemed 'dangerously out of control' within the Dangerous Dogs Act; whereas what you've described seems to me (IANAL) a pretty clear case of threatening behaviour by the owner which, with three witnesses, might even be prosecutable. I'm not proposing that course (even if the police did think it worthwhile) and realise that we don't live in an Enid Blyton or George Dixon world. But I am wondering whether a quiet serious warning from the police about threatening behaviour, the threatened actions, and the duty to control one's dog, might pay dividends.

The flippant contributions haven't done much for the thread, the forum, or AM.

[first mate]

ianr,

I take your point. However, there is in my experience a type of bull breed owner that routinely kicks their dog. Perhaps the owner in question only kicks those dogs belonging to people he chooses to threaten. My main point is that the owner threatened innocent passers by - a person and their teenage daughter- with physical violence. That is what I would be reporting to the police. My guess is that had the owner apologised profusely at the time, promised to keep his dog under proper control in future and to settle any vet bills to the other person's dog should the need arise, then the matter would not have reached this forum. The central issue is this man's behavior.

[Santerme]

I confess to be a little lost as to the need for advice on this issue.

It is a matter for the police pure and simple.

Report it, I would have ten seconds after it happened!

[pommie]

definitely report it to the local dog wardens and neighbourhood watch. A similar incident happened near my house a few weeks ago. My neighbour was in the dog park with her dog and a man came in with a big dog (like a staff but bigger head) she asked the guy if the dog was ok with other dogs but the guy was on the phone. the next minute the dog charged at her jack russell and clamped onto its neck. Me and another passer by tried to get the dog off by hitting it etc. Eventually it released its grip and a council guy driving past got out and shouted that the dog should have been on a lead and been wearing a muzzle to which the owner shouted "its never done that before". Anyway we rushed the jack russell to the local vets and it had about 4 puncture wounds. After speaking to neighbours it turns out this guy has a staff as well which has attacked two dogs. the owner of the dog rang up the council and was told to ring the animal wardens and then contact neighbourhood watch so that they can record it and keep a watch out.

[PeckhamRose]

I am sad there were some unfriendly unsupportive and downright upsetting responses to your initial post, but nevertheless I do agree with the point that you can not hope to achieve anyrhing by posting here when you don't say what road you were talking about. Please report this to your local safer neighbourhood team and come along to the next police ward panel to ask them what their response is. All such imformation is avaulable if you search around. A horrible experience to have gone through, and I am very sorry you had to go through it.

[HonaloochieB]

As a general point, I don't own a dog and doubt I will ever do.

I'm more than capable of being flippant, sarcastic, irrelevant and dismissive, but I mostly try to not do it at the expense of others who have seemingly had a rotten experience such as AM.

Please, a little humanity, a touch of empathy. Thanks.

[giggirl]

HAL9000 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Get a bigger dog?

Shameful response to this post

[ImpetuousVrouw]

I don't think Hal was being flippant. The thought of an elderly, toothless staff probably brought out the sense of the bizzare in a couple of us, me included, sorry.

The threats of the owner, however, are illegal if they put you or yours in fear of any physical harm and should be reported to the police.

[aquarius moon]

Thankyou to all the people who have given their advice & left supportive messages on here.

Thankfully, my little dog does not seem to have suffered any ill effects from the attack. I've no idea how he will behave towards other dogs, because we've not met any since, but I imagine he will be quite apprehensive, if one comes too close. Time will tell.

I know that I should have reported it straight away, & am still considering informing the safer neighbourhood team, but as I've already said, I'm nervous about getting on the wrong side of these kind of aggressive people. I live alone with my daughter so obviously feel more vulnerable than others might, in the same situation.

As for the flippant comments re: ' an elderley toothless staffie', you should realize that while the attack was going on, we had no idea that the dog was not inflicting life-threatening injuries on our dog. Toothless or not, it had such a firm grip on his head/neck, & had no intention of letting go. You hear of small dogs being killed in this way & both my daughter & I, thought that this was happening before our eyes & there was nothing we could do.

It was a very frightening experience & obviously the authors of the uncaring posts are not dog lovers/owners so will never understand how we felt.