M&S

[nxjen]

While it may be true that some independents who will be in competition with M&S may have to look at their pricing, I wonder if they have to charge such high prices in order to survive. Apologies for being gloomy, but I'm getting a sense of deja vu when many independents closed when Sainsburys opened.

[LondonMix]

I think most of the indies are priced well. My only comment was on Franklins, which may shut.

[Louisa]

I know that Gateway, the predecessor to Somerfield had that LL site built, and probably did own the property. Whether that freehold ownership was passed onto the Co-op when they bought out Somerfield, I do not know? EDHistory?

Many years ago, it was standard practice for many large chains to own outright property portfolios. As an example, the freehold on the former M&S on Rye Lane, Peckham - currently occupied by Peacocks and Argos is, I believe, still owned by Marks and Spencer.

Louisa.

[worldwiser]

LondonMix, oh how true. But they're laughing. They've had an M&S for years. And when Woolies went bust another more aspirant W took over 😀 The double!

[Elphinstone's Army]

Louisa,

It isn't M&S fault that Iceland pulled out of it's site.

M&S do not do vegan or dairy free sandwiches or wraps for example, so it will not provide all things to all shoppers.

We can't be the only meat/dairy wheat free family for miles around? Through health/diet/ethical reasons (we all have different reasons) and expect soon enough this essential dietary necessity or eccentricity will be catered for along LL for those of us who would not touch such cheap eggs (poor hens Louisa) butter, cheese and definitely not fishfingers which you lauded as reasons to shop at Iceland.

I remember the old Home and Colonial shops, with tiled frontages, floorboards with fresh sweet smelling sawdust, a cashier on the left, in a mahogany throne, a cheese wire to cut massive round cheeses, the smell of freshly ground coffee, and the grind of the machine, large biscuit tins in their sides so you helped yourself (hands in the biscuits)! for them to be weighed, the bespectacled old gentleman who had been there since Adam was a lad, and greeted us all by name, and best of all, the bacon slicer. We three would stand transfixed whilst the assistant, would slap a piece of ham or bacon onto the blade, and press his hand against it, firmly. It was far more exciting if the piece was flat, and better still if it was small, as the machine whirred and the slices plonked down onto waxed paper laid on the other side, the prospect of nails, flesh and blood flying across the counter became excitingly imminent.

Alas, the operator was skilled as a matador and we walked home despondent disappointed and ready to try again next week.

Saturday morning, my Father would park right outside, to collect The Order.

I believe they were taken over by Lipton's, Foxy will know, and were smartened up.

At the time, who would have guessed how times and shopping would change.

When I told my children this fascinating social history they rolled their eyes : it was of no interest to them, my experiences were out of their time.

Iceland here was out of time and out of sync. The shop could not continue for you, the same as the Coop will not keep going for dbboy and his bread.

The High Street is evolving, we will have a new shop next to Rose's at last, then possibly the Irish Shop will be a cushion and fascinator store, Londis is threatening to become a Costa Coffee and Question Air will be moving on soon.

The Coop will be transformed into a Waitrose and Lidl will rebuild the Grove Tavern.

My own desire which is well documented, is that a busy, clean, delivering, modern store selling fresh fresh veg with a juice bar will materialise. A modern take on what we knew as a greengrocer. With apples and eggs from Kent, potatoes and root veg from Lincolnshire and salad from Hertfordshire or even nearer, all realistically priced, local honey and brown paper bags. sigh.

Louisa you cannot look upon Iceland as your own Bali Hai and be left behind : it isn't as though there isn't one at Peckham Rye should you need a fix : it was a charmless place - what if all the friendly staff had left of their own volition anyway, would you still be as enamoured?

I am sorry you are despondent - however - embracing change and progress apparently keeps us young in spirit, interested and interesting.

Iceland is gone now from Lordship Lane and you are still in mourning.

I feel I am offering grief counselling : but come out with us and explore this bright shiny new store, do not be sulking - there might be champagne ! (Cava)

Hand on heart I swear I will never again mention the Home and Colonial Stores.

[Penguin68]

While it may be true that some independents who will be in competition with M&S may have to look at their pricing

Pricing is just one tool for competitive marketing - service/ quality and innovation are the other two key levers to gain competitive edge. M&S competitors may offer a wider range (i.e. branded goods) or different service levels - the problems of parking have been pointed out, so allying with a delivery service locally could offer an edge.

Certainly price gouging will no longer be a real option - but you don't just have to compete on price.

[LondonMix]

Elphinstone-- how old are you? That story sounds like its from the Victorian era!

What makes you think Question Time is closing? Have you heard something specific? Londis's planning application doesn't look like a coffee chain but rather a restaurant based on the internal reconfiguration.

Anyhow, one thing is sure change is inevitable.

Worldwiser, I hadn't realised they had a Waitrose and an M&S. Still, that only partially makes up for the fact you have to live in north London :)

[Elphinstone's Army]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have always found Sainsburys to be vastly

> overrated. It is the same as Asda, Tesco or

> Morrisons but tries to market itself as a

> competitor to Waitrose and M&S. If I'm being

> perfectly honest, Lidl and Aldi offer cheaper and

> better quality produce than Sainsburys and excel

> in their smaller format shops because they're easy

> in and out jobs, no messing around.

Louisa, you are the Planning Department scout so you will know first anyway : M&S at Peckham Rye station? it is a main conduit after all - and perhaps their stake would encompass or restyle the Iceland already there?

I was surprised that a mini M&S was not on the slender site next to East Dulwich Station, they will be everywhere like triffids.

>

> I don't dislike M&S, I would shop at M&S over

> Sainsburys any day of the week. It is better

> quality and it isn't much more expensive. My

> problem with M&S Dulwich is the fact they've

> picked the wrong location IMHO. They should have

> opted for Peckham Rye station after the

> redevelopment. A much better punt. Leaving Iceland

> intact.

>

> Louisa.

[DulwichFox]

Elphinstone's Army wrote:-

I believe they were taken over by Lipton's, Foxy will know, and were smartened up.

Between 1924 and 1931, several stores, including Liptons merged with Home & Colonial to form a company with over 3,000 branches.

Crikey.. I'm not that old... But I sort of remember Home and Colonial Stores possibly from Bargoed in South Wales where my grand parents(dad's side) lived ..

Home & Colonial Store in Bargoed in the 1950?s or 1960?s

How times things have changed.

Foxy

[Jennys]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The old Iceland's was popular but never rammed

> with people...

I think to experience somewhere that is rammed you need to catch the same train as Jeremy Corbyn.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[DulwichFox]

In defence of Jeremy Corbyn, all the empty seats he walked passed had 'dockets' in the headrest..

In my limited experiance of long distance rail travel, that would indicate the seats were reserved..

and therefore not available..

DulwichFox

[Louisa]

Elphinstone's Army you are of course ultimately right. Regardless of my reservations, the deal is done and the store is on the cusp of opening. I will certaintly venture in and give it a go. But I can assure everyone I will NOT be adding to existing parking pressures on surrounding streets and I would encourage others not to do so either. Residents are rightly upset and I have a lot of sympathy for them. I still get my Iceland fix so it's fine for me, others however may have to venture further afield now.

My mother often spoke fondly of Home & Colonial stores. I think they had one in Preston, Lancashire in the 1940's. Much like the old counter service Sainsburys on Rye Lane in Peckham, they were very much of their age. I don't think with today's impatient shoppers such stores would survive long. Shame. But that's progress for you.

If M&S were to make a return to Peckham I'm sure they would make use of their existing store space rather than adapt somewhere else, but of course it's all hear say. Maybe Waitrose would be more interested?

Louisa.

[titch juicy]

Elphinstone's Army Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisa,

>

> It isn't M&S fault that Iceland pulled out of it's

> site.

>

> M&S do not do vegan or dairy free sandwiches or

> wraps for example, so it will not provide all

> things to all shoppers.

> We can't be the only meat/dairy wheat free family

> for miles around? Through health/diet/ethical

> reasons (we all have different reasons) and expect

> soon enough this essential dietary necessity or

> eccentricity will be catered for along LL for

> those of us who would not touch such cheap eggs

> (poor hens Louisa) butter, cheese and definitely

> not fishfingers which you lauded as reasons to

> shop at Iceland.

>

> I remember the old Home and Colonial shops, with

> tiled frontages, floorboards with fresh sweet

> smelling sawdust, a cashier on the left, in a

> mahogany throne, a cheese wire to cut massive

> round cheeses, the smell of freshly ground coffee,

> and the grind of the machine, large biscuit tins

> in their sides so you helped yourself (hands in

> the biscuits)! for them to be weighed, the

> bespectacled old gentleman who had been there

> since Adam was a lad, and greeted us all by name,

> and best of all, the bacon slicer. We three would

> stand transfixed whilst the assistant, would slap

> a piece of ham or bacon onto the blade, and press

> his hand against it, firmly. It was far more

> exciting if the piece was flat, and better still

> if it was small, as the machine whirred and the

> slices plonked down onto waxed paper laid on the

> other side, the prospect of nails, flesh and blood

> flying across the counter became excitingly

> imminent.

> Alas, the operator was skilled as a matador and we

> walked home despondent disappointed and ready to

> try again next week.

>

> Saturday morning, my Father would park right

> outside, to collect The Order.

>

> I believe they were taken over by Lipton's, Foxy

> will know, and were smartened up.

>

> At the time, who would have guessed how times and

> shopping would change.

>

> When I told my children this fascinating social

> history they rolled their eyes : it was of no

> interest to them, my experiences were out of their

> time.

>

> Iceland here was out of time and out of sync. The

> shop could not continue for you, the same as the

> Coop will not keep going for dbboy and his bread.

>

>

> The High Street is evolving, we will have a new

> shop next to Rose's at last, then possibly the

> Irish Shop will be a cushion and fascinator store,

> Londis is threatening to become a Costa Coffee and

> Question Air will be moving on soon.

>

> The Coop will be transformed into a Waitrose and

> Lidl will rebuild the Grove Tavern.

>

> My own desire which is well documented, is that a

> busy, clean, delivering, modern store selling

> fresh fresh veg with a juice bar will materialise.

> A modern take on what we knew as a greengrocer.

> With apples and eggs from Kent, potatoes and root

> veg from Lincolnshire and salad from Hertfordshire

> or even nearer, all realistically priced, local

> honey and brown paper bags. sigh.

>

> Louisa you cannot look upon Iceland as your own

> Bali Hai and be left behind : it isn't as though

> there isn't one at Peckham Rye should you need a

> fix : it was a charmless place - what if all the

> friendly staff had left of their own volition

> anyway, would you still be as enamoured?

>

> I am sorry you are despondent - however -

> embracing change and progress apparently keeps us

> young in spirit, interested and interesting.

>

> Iceland is gone now from Lordship Lane and you are

> still in mourning.

> I feel I am offering grief counselling : but come

> out with us and explore this bright shiny new

> store, do not be sulking - there might be

> champagne ! (Cava)

>

> Hand on heart I swear I will never again mention

> the Home and Colonial Stores.

I really enjoyed reading that :)

[Louisa]

On the topic of the future of Londis, I was under the impression Bill's were interested. They are a higher end small chain of restaurants, with the nearest branch being Greenwich I believe, possibly Clapham too. A modern take on traditional favourites, they also serve breakfast. Initially I was under the impression Nando's were the likely candidate, but it's still all a little hush hush.

Louisa's

[titch juicy]

Does anyone know the proposed opening date for M&S?

Apologies if it's already been mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Louisa]

Next Wednesday 31st.

Louisa.

[titch juicy]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Next Wednesday 31st.

>

> Louisa.

Thanks

[LondonMix]

Oh, hadn't heard that. Don't tease me about Nandos... You know its my chain restaurant weak spot!

Never heard of Bill's. Will go google it now :) I'll miss Londis though. Good sized news agents are useful.

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> On the topic of the future of Londis, I was under

> the impression Bill's were interested. They are a

> higher end small chain of restaurants, with the

> nearest branch being Greenwich I believe, possibly

> Clapham too. A modern take on traditional

> favourites, they also serve breakfast. Initially I

> was under the impression Nando's were the likely

> candidate, but it's still all a little hush hush.

>

> Louisa's

[Louisa]

I too will miss Londis LM, but I assume with the M&S comes the increased destination footfall, and the interest of a chain restaurant. On a positive note, IF it is Bill's, they really are a very decent restaurant chain. They do a diverse and tasty breakfast menu that's for sure. I can certaintly recommend their buttermilk pancakes with maple syrup and back streaky bacon. Went to their Exeter restaurant back in January.

Louisa.

[geneie]

The Lordship Kane equivalent for Home and Colonial stores was the wonderful David Greigs shop, with all the things Elphinstone's army describes. I loved going shopping with my mum there on a Thursday, which was when she collected her housekeeping money from the Midland Bank, moving from counter to counter...

[geneie]

Oops! Lordship *Lane* that should be!

[LondonMix]

That sounds tasty. I actually haven't found a place for really good breakfast since Lucas closed. Its a shame the partners couldn't work out their differences as that place was always packed, the food was so good.

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I too will miss Londis LM, but I assume with the

> M&S comes the increased destination footfall, and

> the interest of a chain restaurant. On a positive

> note, IF it is Bill's, they really are a very

> decent restaurant chain. They do a diverse and

> tasty breakfast menu that's for sure. I can

> certaintly recommend their buttermilk pancakes

> with maple syrup and back streaky bacon. Went to

> their Exeter restaurant back in January.

>

> Louisa.

[edhistory]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Don't tease me about Nandos

Don't worry, it's a "protected frontage" (see attached map).

[LondonMix]

Why would that stop a Nandos opening. If it wasn't clear, I'm in favor of that!

[edhistory]

Change to A3 (restaurant) usage is prohibited under the legal derogation.