Commuting - is this normal?

[Louisa]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

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> 'Sadly' it's a no brainer?

> SADLY?

>

> It's a great way to get around and people like

> Louisa are to be ignored.

> Motorcycle it, and then when you get to work

> you've already had a motorcycle ride that day.

> And no more passing round colds and flu on public

As much as I find public transport a disgusting method of getting about, it has it's place, and the more people to use it, the better it is for people like me who like to drive. Cyclists on the other hand are just a bloody nuisance, getting in the way causing accidents and slowing down traffic, oh and they dont pay road tax either! As for motorcyclists.. well that gets me onto a completely different topic. They tend to be arrogant and selfish, and more likely to raise two fingers to anyone who slows them down. This method of unsafe road use should be discouraged as it is a damn right nuisance to law abiding car users such as myself! I think they should either be banned, or there should be a huge hike in prices for motorcycles on road tax.

Louisa.

[kford]

It's funny, Louisa, as a biker and a cyclist, it's cars, lorries and buses that seem to cause all the near misses and accidents I read about. And I love 'They tend to be arrogant and selfish'. Brilliant sweeping generalisation. You should get yourself on a bike. The sense of having all that freedom might make you less pent-up and bitter.

[Bic Basher]

bil Wrote:

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> The East London line is easily obtainable from ED.

> There are lots of buses to Forest hill and then

> the journey to the city is fast from there.

Once the ELL is extended to Clapham Junction in 2012, most ED'ers will benefit from changing at Peckham Rye for trains into the City and Canada Water (for Canary Wharf) and cheaper travelcards/PAYG.

This doesn't take away the concerns about the South London Line closure, but as we've seen on the Forest Hill line, which I commute from, on the whole it's a lot better than it was pre May.

[WickedStepmother]

I've been commuting from the corner of East Dulwich Road/Peckham Rye up to Old St (1 stop north of Moorgate) for a couple of years now and as a rule I've found that I have to allow one hour to get to work in a morning but around an hour and fifteen minutes to get home.

[Gimme]

I can strongly recommend trying the Northern Line for a week. After that, the train commute will seem like absolute paradise! It's all about what you are used to. Give it time, you'll become as inured to it as most of the rest of us are.

Parsley Wrote:

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> I've just started a new job based in the City. My

> door to door commute should be 45 minutes and when

> it's working well, it is. I have to get back at a

> certain time as I have childcare commitments. So

> far, the journey in has been fine. However, out of

> 5 journeys home, 2 have been severely disrupted.

> One by a trespasser on the line (held things up

> for nearly an hour) and today, there was a points

> failure. I was about 40 minutes late home. Is

> this usual?

>

> I drove to my last job and yes, traffic could be a

> pain but at least I could take another route if

> there were problems. I'm despairing of the train

> service at the moment... is this just a blip?

[robotcat]

Cyclists on the other hand are just a bloody nuisance, getting in the way causing accidents and slowing down traffic, oh and they dont pay road tax either! As for motorcyclists

I think you'll find that nobody pays road tax - A tax of that name was abolished in 1936 and was intended at the time to be a contribution to highway costs. Vehicle Excise Duty, or Car Tax is what many people mistakenly think of as ?road tax?. It isn?t. It no more pays for the road than the VAT on a Mars bar. Local authorities have maintenance responsibility for the roads. Everyone should know that. Especially Council Tax payers, because it says so on their Council Tax accounts. My Local Authority?s highway maintenance budget for this year accounts for some 6% of the precept. Local Authorities? get their funding from a combination of Council Tax and a Treasury Grant from general taxation. So, the roads are for everyone. And everyone pays.

On the other hand if you are going to moan about cyclists who don't pay this tax then you may as well include the drivers of particularly green cars, war pensioners, disabled drivers, and a number of other groups.

Read more: http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/cycling/cyclists-pay-road-tax/#ixzz0riYsPwYN

[randombloke]

Louisa Wrote:

>

> As much as I find public transport a disgusting

> method of getting about, it has it's place, and

> the more people to use it, the better it is for

> people like me who like to drive. Cyclists on the

> other hand are just a bloody nuisance, getting in

> the way causing accidents and slowing down

> traffic, oh and they dont pay road tax either! As

> for motorcyclists.. well that gets me onto a

> completely different topic. They tend to be

> arrogant and selfish, and more likely to raise two

> fingers to anyone who slows them down. This method

> of unsafe road use should be discouraged as it is

> a damn right nuisance to law abiding car users

> such as myself! I think they should either be

> banned, or there should be a huge hike in prices

> for motorcycles on road tax.

>

> Louisa.

Hmmm. I was under the impression the thread started as a statement about whether unreliable public transport and commuting was the norm. Suggesting using a motorcycle as an alternative has raised the predictable bikers v cars v pedestrians v cyclists nonsense.

As a motorcyclist, by dint of the fact that we can go faster than pedal cyclists and are less protected than car drivers we have to be more aware of what is going on around us. As a result we GENERALLY have more roadcraft, are more anticipatory and therefore less likely to cause accidents than other road users. Not all of us granted, I despair at seeing bikers on 180 mph sports bikes riding round in flip flops and shorts. But I also despair at the number of cyclists with iPods in cycling with one hand whilst talking into mobile phones. I also despair at seeing idiotic drivers ignoring red lights and going across junctions when they should be stopped. Peckham Rye/East Dulwich Rd is a prime example. In a car if I have green light going along the Rye I'd barely consider what's coming on East Dulwich Rd or Nunhead Lane. On the bike I always look because I assume that some idiot in an uninsured blinged up Nova, an harassed parent with kids misbehaving in the back, a taxi or a sales rep in a company car will come racing through a red light. So Louisa, please don't say that bikers are unsafe road users or damn right (sic) nuisances. That's a sweeping generalisation and not based on any evidence whatsoever.

I have become more aware in the last 4 months of riding a motorcycle than as a driver with 25 years experience.

[PeckhamRose]

Yes, Louisa, what he (the above) said!

I am a good person, trained, experienced biker and never smug - always try to learn from mistakes, first aid trained.

All bikers are humans too, just as are selfish badly trained idiot red-light jumping bus drivers.

Don't make such stupid ignorant generalisations or we will think of you as a stupid ignorant person.

See what I did there twice?

[Louisa]

Once again the folk on here have to turn it into a drama. I was merely stating my point of view, I didnt need a bloody series of essay in response! My experience of cyclists and motorbikes has in general not been positive therefore I am bound to have a biased viewpoint regarding them, isnt that obvious? :-S

Anyway, I agree PR, they are only humans, the same as bad drivers (plenty of those on the road), but note I did say in an earlier post "law abiding drivers such as myself" - I am sure there are plenty of law abiding cyclists and motorbike riders on the road, but my point was not about that, it was an observation on the forms of transport used on the roads. In general cars are in a greater number, therefore they should have priority in terms of road use.

The patronising comment by robotcat about VAT and roadtax is just a finicky and cynical dig at me. If we want to go down that route though be my guest. What about the fact that car drivers have to pay extra tax on the cost of fuel? What about the fact that car drivers (the law abiding ones such as myself) have to be insured to drive a vehicle incase of accidents? If a bloody cyclist crashes into someone on the road and causes damage to a car, person, animal or anything else for that matter, what is the comeback on such a circumstance? There isnt one! Take cyclists off the road in cities, dangerous and unaccountable (generalisation but true in the technical sense at least).

Louisa.

[stevebailey]

Back to the original topic of this thread.

I'd been getting the train from ED to LB then a 521 to Holborn for a year until i realised that Denmark Hill goes into City Thameslink, been doing this for about a month and never (fingers crossed) had any issues.

What with the sometimes delays out of LB home and only a 40 as a fall back, this is worth noting as an alternative route.

A 40, 176, 484, or 185 all go up to Denmark Hill station and are very frequent in the morning, and same on the way home.

Just though I'd stick my ore in too.

[skidmarks]

Louisa Wrote:

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. In general cars are

> in a greater number, therefore they should have

> priority in terms of road use.

No no no! You?re saying that someone driving to a drive in McDonalds journey is more important than say a person walking or cycling to work.

It is such 1960?s mentality where car was king and everyone else was dirt. And exactly why we ended up with roads like the A3 severing communities. The Elephant and Castle subway rapist and muggers paradise hell-hole.

Also you?ll find that cars have a disproportionate level of road space and resources dedicated for them.

[ImpetuousVrouw]

What made me laugh was that Louisia said that cyclists and motorcyclists were blocking traffic.

No, Louisa, WE ARE TRAFFIC!

[JonC]

Parsley - I suggest you seriously consider cycling to work. Having done it for a year now, I love it. I have lived in ED for 10 years and have experience of getting into town with the trains and buses (although never needed to use LU for commuting). Explore the options for the type of cycling you would prefer - try it - if you do not like it - then stop. Simple. I just toodle along on a Dutch bike and it takes me 30 minutes to Victoria - each day - everyday. It's great.

The only problem with cycling is resisting stopping for a pint whenever you fancy it on the way home.

And if I must contribute to the road-user debate (yawn) - as a motorist myself I would agree with randombloke, cyclists and motorcyclists have a naturally heightened sense of awareness on the road. I would also suggest articulated lorry drivers do as well - it is quite a skill driving such vehicles in cities.

Those that boast of being law-abiding road users whilst demonstrating ignorant, rank intolerance of other road-users don't strike me as having the qualities to be particularly considerate or safe drivers.

Anyway - must dash - Matron is calling me for my bath.

[Louisa]

skidmarks Wrote:

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>

> No no no! You?re saying that someone driving to a

> drive in McDonalds journey is more important than

> say a person walking or cycling to work.

>

> It is such 1960?s mentality where car was king and

> everyone else was dirt. And exactly why we ended

> up with roads like the A3 severing communities.

> The Elephant and Castle subway rapist and muggers

> paradise hell-hole.

>

> Also you?ll find that cars have a disproportionate

> level of road space and resources dedicated for

> them.

Erm I dont recall me mentioning road users destinations? If a road user of any form of transport has paid for the use of it then they have every right to go wherever they want to. Who is to say that most car users are not choosing to head to work in their car anyhow?. If it's an argument on resources and space used then I could argue with you that we pay for the right to use the road space in taxation left right and centre? The Congestion Charge is an extra cost for drivers heading into the centre of town which cyclists do not have to pay for? As for muggings in the E&C and the A3 causing social unrest and cutting up communities well... What a load of tosh! You seriously need to get a grip. Just as you are suggesting I am so anti everything other than car, which is partially true, I am still open to suggestions and understanding of other peoples point of view. You seem to be just as anti something (if not more so) than I do!... but, unlike me, you have failed to piece together a valid argument. Back to the drawing board my love! :))

Louisa.

[Louisa]

JonC Wrote:

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> Those that boast of being law-abiding road users

> whilst demonstrating ignorant, rank intolerance of

> other road-users don't strike me as having the

> qualities to be particularly considerate or safe

> drivers.

>

> Anyway - must dash - Matron is calling me for my

> bath.

Maybe if you contribute something towards the up keep of roads (as a cyclist), and perhaps consider the frustration you cause by slowing down traffic through busy parts of cities, road users such as myself would not be so quick to judge you all in one catergory! You make the assumption that people boasting of being law-abiding on the roads tend to be inconsiderate drivers, well clearly the previous comment you made in the same response was a form of gloating by suggesting cyclists are amongst the most aware on the road.. hmmm... contradiction me thinks!

Louisa.

[PaulR]

I am a cyclist and a motorist and a pedestrian and a user of public transport. I spend ridiculous amounts of money (or so it seems to me) keeping a car on the road for those (rare) occasions when it is the best option for transport but I am at my happiest when I can get around London on my bike or on foot. I certainly don't regard the fact that I spend money on running a car as giving me any rights over and above people who don't. If anything, the obvious danger of driving a car in a densely populated area imposes on me an extra duty of care towards more vulnerable road users and pedestrians.

The idea that cyclists block traffic is laughable - have you really not seen how the cars clog up the roads of London?

Oh, and if I am riding my bike and crash into someone (I've not managed to do that in the last 43 years) then I can be sued, which is why I have third party insurance through my membership of the LCC.

Edit: "if you contribute something towards the up keep of roads (as a cyclist)" - well, leaving aside the point that has been made about road tax, and the fact that the roads are not funded just by motorists, bear in mind please that a very high proportion of cyclists are also car-owners who happen to use their bikes as well, causing significantly less wear and tear to the roads than motor vehicles, not that this is actually relevant given the way roads are funded...

[skidmarks]

Louisa,

I?m not anti anything. I have a car and I design roads for a living so have a vested interest, you could say. However, I am not of the outdated school of thought of the 1950?s and 1960?s. Urban roads are owned by the community that live beside them and there to transport people in whatever form of transport they use be it car, bike, bus.

When I said sever I meant as in division of communities. I guess you?ve never seen while driving signs saying 'Bypass us now' or read in the Daily Mail about some little village on the A30 moaning about how they can never cross the road owing to the number of vehicles driving through their community to go somewhere else.

I have lost count on the number of 1960?s subways we have filled in now as a company as no one wants to use them.

Good news though once less cyclist to slow you down on your oh so important journey.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/10404620.stm

[expat]

she killed somebody and got a two-year driving ban, a two-year community order and sentenced to 200 hours unpaid work.

[skidmarks]

expat Wrote:

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> she killed somebody and got a two-year driving

> ban, a two-year community order and sentenced to

> 200 hours unpaid work.

He had less rights he hadn't paid VED opps I mean road tax

[Loz]

Vehicle Excise Duty, or Car Tax is what many people mistakenly think of as ?road tax?.

Good grief - I trashed that stupid car tax argument a few weeks ago.

All I say is... sea kittens.

[louisiana]

I've recently switched from 40 bus to Overground for this trip.

Shoreditch is very near Liverpool Street and not a million miles from Moorgate.

On average the trip is taking 40 minutes door to door, including walking, bus to/from Forest Hill, and Overground F Hill/Shoreditch High Street.

[Gimme]

Cars are a bloody nuisance. They are the things that cause the congestion. Drivers at rush hour are generally selfish fat lazy people who think that public transport or any less polluting mode of transport is beneath them. And lets not start on the school-run morons....

A car driver suggesting that cyclists cause accidents is like a fishermen suggesting that dolphins reduce fish stocks.

There is no such thing as a responsible car user. When you use your car for a journey that you could do by bike or public transport (i.e. low pollution) you are being irresponsible.

Louisa Wrote:

Cyclists on the

> other hand are just a bloody nuisance, getting in

> the way causing accidents and slowing down

> traffic, oh and they dont pay road tax either! As

> for motorcyclists.. well that gets me onto a

> completely different topic. They tend to be

> arrogant and selfish, and more likely to raise two

> fingers to anyone who slows them down.

[mrs f]

"Cyclists on the other hand are just a bloody nuisance, getting in the way causing accidents and slowing down traffic"

this is just so stupid it's laughable.... if everyone on a bike was in a car imagine the traffic!

wow Louisa well done! you should actually be grateful to cyclists as they take up far less space on the road and you are able to wizz by us (leaving only 2cm space-thanks!) and off you go, if I was in my car (which I pay tax for) then you couldn't do that.... are you really that dim?

[cmck83]

> Good news though once less cyclist to slow you

> down on your oh so important journey.

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/10404620.

> stm

Louisa is probably delighted. After all, in another thread she has already wished for a "cull" of cyclists.

"And cyclists dont pay road tax either, and theyre more than happy to stick a finger up at us poor drivers! A cull would go a long way in helping to relieve the stress of the morning commuter traffic :D

Louisa."

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,484251,page=1

Disgusting comment; I hope no one she ever cares about gets killed on their bike.

[JonC]

Louisa - about my comments - when you say I should..

"...consider the frustration you cause by slowing down traffic through busy parts of cities..."

..on my bicycle I simply cycle past traffic that tends to be stationary most of the time in busy parts of the city. I tend to pass vehicles and leave them behind as a result. I do not add to their journey time. When I drive my car I get stuck in traffic and see bicycles cycle past by me (which I have to say I do not consider a problem).

And about your comment that I am..

"..gloating by suggesting cyclists are amongst the most aware on the road.."

It is merely my impression based on my experience of both forms of transport. On a bicycle you are more exposed to the environment around you - and therefore react accordingly and your senses are heightened as a result.

I have three bicycles but I also love driving. I have a very enjoyable and cherished, rare, open-top Italian sportscar. It is a reasonably fast car. But I know for a fact it cannot compete with a bicycle in getting through London traffic as quick and efficiently.

I would certainly therefore recommend Parsley commutes by bicycle. It would seem to me that mopeds and motorbikes are also a good way to commute - but I have no experience with them so cannot advise accordingly.

Hope that clarifies. Sorry to others for moving off topic slightly.

Anyway must dash - Matron wants to dry me off with some warm, fluffy towels.