Dulwich Medical Centre - Late patient policy

[Monkmeybum]

Strange because gps get paid per pt they see so it does not make sense to see you

[Nero]

Tulip,

Pleas tell us more about how one gets involved with any surgery's patient committee. I - and hopefully many others - would like to get involved and put our views forward.

For the record, I think that DMC is doing OK - 7/10 - but that missed appointments and a certain lacksadaisical attitude as regards consultant appointments, test results etc, raise their heads.

Also for the record, you sound rather parti pris, a little too knowledgeable about current NHS practice to be a non-insider. Should that be the case, I urge you to drop your professional mantle and see it from the side of us, the users. We don't want to know about the latest trends and strategies; we just want to be afforded good, timely and efficient treatment.

[Gimme]

"I suggest if anyone who is unhappy asks to speak to the practice manager. You could even join your practice's patient participation group rather than spouting off on here."

Good idea Tulip. I have been guilty of only making my annoyance at having to wait for up to an hour at a time in the waiting room to the receptionist. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong. Only the Practice Manager is qualified to accept complaints. And why not waste more time joining a patient participant group so that DMC can address the blatantly obvious on a regular basis in a group situation. Thanks for the suggestions.

Last two surgeries I've been registered at (one for 18 years in the 'regions' and one for 10 years in another part of S London) had absolutely no problem at all with delays past appointment time. Hell, they even allowed me to see the same couple of doctors time after time rather than sending me round a sea of different faces with every appointment.

Unfortunately, ED does not seem to be blessed with surgeries that are this well organised. Having tried Melbourne Grove and been utterly horrified by their organisation, tone of voice etc (notable exception for Dr Johnson who is, as people have said, absolutely excellent), I've now ended up at DMC and am getting disillusioned too.

Any other suggestions for a more organised medical centre in ED that has decent doctors, appointment times that are pretty much as you are told when you book and a policy of people generally seeing the same one or two doctors?

[Tarot]

Some people have no idea,how it feels to worry, about symptoms you have, then have to wait for an appointment. Then having dragged yourself,through physical pain and stress,to your appointment. Then to find you are one minute late, as you are t old curtly,by a po faced receptionist that you cannot see a doctor is cruel and indifferent to people who need help,We already pay doctors, with our Natinal Health Contribution, This practice is ludicrous,and I suggest, if you wish to complain about any practice, then look on the back of your medical card, and you will find out how to contact your medical Ombudsman, Dont put up with it, you have your rights,

[tulip]

I'm insider I suppose, but not at any of the local practices so I have no professional allegiances to the practices mentioned. I am however a local patient- again not at a practice mentioned here!

If you want to see the same doctors again and again look for smaller practices and especially practices where most of the GPs are partners. The partners are more likely to be commiteed to the practice long-term as they have invested financially in the business. DMC has lots of salaried doctors and as salaried GPs are employed by the partners like any other staff, they are likley to leave posts and change practices more frequently. However, other patients appreciate convenience, availability and choice over continuity and find this a strength.

As for where to complain- it is worth speaking to the practice managers as they can influence and make policy in the practice. Receptionists can influence too, but they are in a difficult position as they have procedures to follow, a finite appointment system within which they must operate and they can't simply tell the doctors to hurry up! The levels of abuse and general rudeness the receptionists are subjected to is astounding (of course the patients would rarely dare speak like that to the doctor)!

If you ask, I would hope the receptionists would be able to tell you what patient participation groups/schemes are running for their practice. They may well be advertised in the practice or on their website too. I have always struggled to get patients interested at the practice I work at and have taken to attending other existing local community groups instead- many practices would be glad of the input ? but from those who will help shape the practice and be constructive rather than use it as a forum for moaning!

In my experience most GPs genuinely want to provide a great service, really try and make the appointments system work (bearing in mind there are finite resources and the problems that various blanket access targets imposed) and they go the extra mile for their patients. Whilst practices can and should do the best to provide services that are easy and convenient for patients (as I said they agonise over their appointment books) I think the focus should move away from targets and endless patient choice and to making sure that there is an excellent clinical standard of care and that patients' actual needs are met. There are various studies and toolkits to help practices plan their appointments, but the individual populations of practices and the fact that everything from the scheduling of sporting events to the weather to the day's press can affect demand that day, there are limitations (before even factoring in the individual needs of the patients who happen to be coming that day). Also patients are generally reluctant to disclose the reason for their visit to reception staff when booking- which rather limits the staff's ability to manage the appointments.

If you don't mind which doctor you see, or find waiting difficult with young children etc, then ask the receptionists which GPs usually run to time (each GP also has their own consulting style and that will affect how much they run to time)or whether that GP is "on call" that day (and is likely to be interrupted if an emergency comes up) or ask about booking the first 1 or 2 appointments in the session before the doctor has a chance to fall behind. The receptionists are actually a fountain of knowledge and rather than berate them it is worth asking their advice about how to best get what you want.

I have to say I find it so frustrating to see all sorts of assumptions, such as how GPs are paid (it?s not by per patient seen by the way) or that they overbook and reply on missed appointments (not true either). At the practice I work at I just wish I could sit down with each of the patients and explain how the appointment system works and why we designed it like that. One thing that was especially good for us was letting patients book online so they can see what we had to offer and pick the best.

[Penguin68]

I had not realised that DMC was substantialy staffed by salaried doctors.

When you read of GPs earning in the many hundreds of thousands that is normally from practices with many salaried doctors - partners can expect to earn around ?100k+ a year or so in a partnership - salaried doctors earn more like ?50-?60k (sometimes less if young and from overseas)- so if you have many salaried staff as a partner you are clearing (say) ?40k for doing nothing except employ people - have a big enough practice with perhaps only one 'partner' and you can really wack your earnings up - some GP partners even manage very high earnings with very little actual doctoring done by them at all.

When you are running a 'business' like this you may have little real contact with patients, and the salaried doctors little interest in improving the way the practice works (as they get no benefit from that, unlike a partner).

I am not suggesting that DMC is run in this way - but some practices certainly are.

It is rather the way the Church of England used to be, with absentee vicars employing poorly paid curates to do their job, whilest trousering the tithes and benefices themselves and never visiting the parish at all.

When we talk about the 'National' Health we always forget that GPs have always been either self employed contractors to the NHS or salaried staff working for these self employed contractors. They have never been directly employed by the state, unlike those working in hospitals.

[Sue]

Gimme Wrote:

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> Hell, they even allowed me to see the same couple

> of doctors time after time rather than sending me

> round a sea of different faces with every

> appointment.

>

xxxxxxx

You can request to see whatever doctor you want at DMC.

However if your need is urgent and your preferred doctor is not working that day, then obviously you will need to see someone else :)

[ImpetuousVrouw]

I arrived 10 minutes early for my appointment at DMC this morning and was called in 3 minute early.

The sign on the Triage room says that if anyone is more than 5 minutes late for a Saturday appointment (and early morning I think) they will have to rebook - this must be to stop working people with little time complaining about having to wait if appointments overrun.

Th receptionsist told me that the standard waiting time for other appointmnets is 10 minutes - so whoever said that they were told that being 2 minutes late means their appointment will be cancelled was incorrect.

I think their 5 and 10 minute waiting time is fair enough.

[Gimme]

Tulip - apologies for my sarcastic appraisal of your suggestions earlier. Your latest post is very informative and sounds very sensible. Thanks for that. Booking online sounds like a good development. Hopefully DMC will bring this in. I'd be very keen to see the same doctor when I've had a good experience with one particular doctor.

[Fuschia]

Gimme Wrote:

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Booking online sounds like a good

> development. Hopefully DMC will bring this in.

They have I believe...

https://www.dmchealthcare.co.uk/our_practices/DMC_CPR/cpr_appointments.php

https://www.dmchealthcare.co.uk/patient_profile/index.php

https://www.dmchealthcare.co.uk/patient_profile/appointment_booking.php

[The Minkey]

"Does anyone know if you can book double appointments at any surgeries, like at the dentist when you've been told to book in a double appointment? Just wondering." Yes, you can certainly book a double appointment at DMC.

I had an appointment there last week and waited about 2 minutes, which made a nice change. I noticed a lot of different names on the doors and was told they've taken on more doctors. DMC are adequate as far as surgeries go, I guess. Pretty good in some ways, less so in others. For example, it's possible to pay for bloods to be drawn by their on-site phlembotomist for non-NHS type testing - something I've found extremely useful.

I much preferred my old surgery back in Brixton which was more progressive, offering on-site osteopathy, counselling etc.

[sophiesofa]

Thanks The Minkey

[cate]

Melbourne Grove has osteopathy and counselling on site. It does have its faults though I think they are trying to address them.

[rspcalondonsoutheast]

If you are not happy you could always use the services of a private GP such as Medi Centre.

[Tarot]

I was told that you can not have an appointment with Dr ravi Gupta, anymore has he is too busy.The only person in the D,M.C, who is consistent ,polite, and very effieccent,is Chris. That woman is the glue that holds that place together, and has done for over twenty odd years.Well done Chris.

[Sue]

Tarot Wrote:

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> I.The

> only person in the D,M.C, who is consistent

> ,polite, and very effieccent,is Chris. That woman

> is the glue that holds that place together, and

> has done for over twenty odd years.Well done

> Chris.

xxxxxxx

Rubbish, I have been going there for years, and almost all the GPs and nurses are consistent, polite and very efficient, as well of course as Chris.

[HonaloochieB]

I like to think it was me that gave Ravi his start, back in the day when the practice was situated opposite the Upland.

Dr Gupta Snr was the man in demand then, when you could demand a particular doctor.

Ravi was just a raw kid, the rubber of his his stethescope still unwrinkled and the blood pressure kit still unwrapped in its presentation box.

Anyway, one day I ventured in, the chest infection burning in my bosom having caused me to leave a trail of flob along Crystal Palace Road.

I was told that Gupta Snr was all booked up for a full two (hour) stretch, but I could have the boy pretty much straight away.

Decided to offer the lad a break and what d'you know?

Within minutes I was heading down the street to the drug dealer in North Cross with a 'script' in my hand for a patent brand of penicillin.

After that, I never looked back, Ravi was my man.

But success and fame entered the equation, no longer a doctor's surgery, now a medical centre, which means I can no longer have the personal physician, that I used to like to think of as 'my Ravi'.

But I'm pleased that it's there and Ravi's still there.

Who knows, maybe one damp Monday morning I might heave my suffering chest in there and we'll reminisce about the days when it was quite some time ago, and much quicker to get to the Upland on leaving the surgery than it is now.