beware...

[Kapt.Kopter]

last weekend I held a toy yard sale for my two boys, and as most folk do I stuck a few posters (a4 size homemade) around the local area. ten minutes before we were due to start two members of Southwark council turned up and asked if I'd placed the posters. I replied that I had and they then served me with a ?75 on the spot fine for flyposting!

last night I walked Lordship lane,Northcross and Goose Green and took over 35 pictures of other illegal posters.

to everyone thinking of sticking up a few posters for your yard sale, school fair or lost dog (yes they are illegal) beware.

[poppylucky]

Thanks for the warning, i had no idea the council would actually come down and fine you for sticking up a poster for a yard sale! even more so for lost dogs and cats, local charity jumble sales... i think they been a bit harsh and should have just warned/explained you without a fine - you should point out all those other illegal posters to them and ask them their success rate at imposing fines.

If they refuse then request it under the Freedom of Information Act,which they have to reply to within 14 days.

[Huggers]

Pull the other One cabaret got fined too. But Gerry Cottle didnt.

[Cora]

I think this is so draconion (spelling?) - part of what makes ED feel local and friendly are these adhoc sales, requests for help etc...it certainly doesn't blight the area (although I agree that organisers should take them down after the event).....reminds me of the aggressive 'catch them out' parking enforcements - not really serving the community we live in...

[Loz]

Huggers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Pull the other One cabaret got fined too. But

> Gerry Cottle didnt.

I'm guessing that one of them knew the correct answer to the "did you stick these posters up" question.

[PeckhamRose]

There's a Community Council meeting Wednesday, why don't you all go and ask the councillors what is going on?

[woofmarkthedog]

What about ...

"BILL STICKERS" then, he's in prison right...?

W**F

[Kapt.Kopter]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There's a Community Council meeting Wednesday, why

> don't you all go and ask the councillors what is

> going on?

I'm on the way!

[DJKillaQueen]

Yeah definitely take it to the CC meeting and I'd complain to local councillors on this too. It seems ridiculous that a local private event can't put up a few posters (esp when they are obviously temporary and can be easily removed). Will they start fining people who put up posters for lost cats and dogs next?

[cate]

Bonkers. Hope James Barber reads this.

[PeckhamRose]

BY THE WAY - and I'll post it in the What's On Section - the Community Council meet is Monday 21st June 7pm Mary Magdalene school 48 Brayards Road SE15.

So go along and tell 'em.

[silverfox]

woofmarkthedog Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What about ...

>

> "BILL STICKERS" then, he's in prison right...?

>

>

> W**F

Last time I looked they were still trying to find him ..."Bill Stickers will be prosecuted"... poor guy, must be at least 100 years old now.

[Nero]

I don't mind the posters themselves but do object to their being left to rot and peel instead of being removed. However, I also object to the council not removing those very visible yellow, laminated A4 sheets they use to notify people of construction plans. Even after raising it with the man whose name appears on the bottom of most of them who told me that the ocuncil would come and remove them after the consultation period (usually three weeks) they remain. If they cheese you off, please rip them down (after the three week consultation period) and send them back to the department.

[DJKillaQueen]

Maybe that's something to propose to the council - that only if temporary posters aren't removed after the event (or a reasonable period of time) are fined. It should be about common sense after all.

[Brendan]

Someone must have grassed you up. I doubt the council have poster patrols.

[Kapt.Kopter]

yep someone reported me. smallminded ratbag

[ianr]

I've been looking at the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, Part VIII, Chapter III (Advertisements) http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.aspx?LegType=Act+%28UK+Public+General%29&title=Town+and+Country+Planning+act&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&TYPE=QS&NavFrom=0&activeTextDocId=2282933&PageNumber=1&SortAlpha=0 and the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements)(England) Regulations 2007 http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=Town+and+Country+Planning+%28Control+of+Advertisements%29+%28England%29+Regulations&Year=2007&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&activeTextDocId=3284741

I can see the powers granted to permit or remove advertisements, and the preconditions for conviction of errant advertisers, but can't see anything there about instant penalty notices (which I'm not up to speed with anyway). Kapt.K, what was the actual chapter and verse given on your penalty notice?

I want to be satisfied that the council is exercising its powers proportionately, fairly and consistently. I can't, for example (just one instance of many) remember a year when there haven't been some circus advertisements that were still present months after the circus had gone. Have they been fined? And some posters I've seen this year are in positions which I don't believe any reasonable council would have permitted. From present knowledge I find it worrying that a fine's been imposed here, for what seems to be a pretty trivial infraction that could probably have been dealt with to most people's satisfaction by simply warning you and asking you to take the notices down.

Incidentally, Regulation 24 requires that there be a public register of all applications made for display of advertisements, and the decisions thereon. I don't yet know about records of prosecutions or other sanctions. And also incidentally, if an unpermitted advertisement "gives publicity to his goods, trade, business or other concerns", the onus is on the proprietor to prove that "6(a) the advertisement was displayed without his knowledge; or (b) he took all reasonable steps to prevent the display or, after the advertisement had been displayed, to secure its removal." (TCPA1990, s.224) That, it seems to me, opens the door to a very large number of possible prosecutions. Kapt.K, I trust your photos have correct dates encoded on them somewhere (eg in the EXIF field of JPEGs).

[Nero]

Interestingly and coincidentally, two posters for the circus that were tied to railings outside Goodrich School have been taken down. Unless the circus in question has suddenly become very polite, I reckon the council have removed them (or someone who has taken against them.)

[ClareC]

Southwark Council seem rather money grabbing, this seems wholly unreasonable and mean spirited :-(

[Kapt.Kopter]

To ianr, thank you for the time and trouble you have taken in this matter, it is very much appreciated.

I have just delived my letter of appeal and now I need to wait...fingers crossed.

[ianr]

I needed to look at it in detail anyway, for not only the general stuff, but also the limited 'deemed approval' provisions for estate agents' signs, that they seem to be happy to overstep. But then, if they've been led to believe there's a circle of hell waiting for them anyway ...

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

[Tarot]

Councils all over south London are either trying to make money,out of th most pettiest of things. or someone has passed that George Orwell book around. They wont let most places have boot sales, and you can;t drive down most roads they,ve all been blocked off. You even have to pay at least four pounds for parking your car; especially in Lewisham shopping centre. This happens often to me, I take someone who cannot walk fast, like most of us fotunate people, so she takes longer to go round the shops,have a tea and rest in BHS, and by the time we get to the car its gone over limit and it cost Four quid. i also used to take her to boot sales in Sydenham . Footsies being one,Sedgefild in Bromley. Now theyve stopped all them.

[Kapt.Kopter]

a successful outcome!

I've just received the reply to my appeal and the fine/notice has been made void.

but they do warn that "officers have been instructed to pay particular interest and to deal with all other (fly)posters"

[Sue]

That's good news, but what were the grounds of your appeal?

Seems a bit random if they have upheld your appeal but are fining others?

[Kapt.Kopter]

heres a copy of the letter I sent to the appeal officer, nothing has been altered I've just removed all names and addresses.