I don't understand "black lives matter"

[Earl Aelfheah]

I have just seen the video asserting that 'the climate crisis is a racist crisis'.

We live in an unequal world where power, money and influence is concentrated in the hands of a tiny number of people. Marginalised groups, poor nations and those who lack access to resources, and /or are subject to discrimination, may well find themselves unfairly disadvantaged in all manner of ways. This includes being disproportionately affected by pollution and globally, by the effects of climate change.

At the same time, the most affluent individuals, nations and societies are able to do more to mitigate the worst effects of pollution and mediate the impacts of climate change on their lives.

Never the less, climate change will be felt by the whole planet and privilege can only shields people so far and for so long.

The way societies have developed, are organised and resources distributed may well be racist, but climate change is indiscriminate. We need to build the broad alliances necessary to create successful social change.

In short, we need to tackle racism and inequality. We need to tackle climate change. Making climate change specifically a BAME issue?? it feels reductionist to me and not particularly helpful.

[Jeremy]

RRR - is that from the BLM UK airport protesters? Whole thing is bloody absurd.

[Earl Aelfheah]

You put it much more succinctly than I did Jeremy. This is the video http://metro.co.uk/video/black-lives-matter-uk-campaign-1326812/?ito=vjs-link

[BrandNewGuy]

Yes. Looks like BLM UK has succumbed to the most fatal error of pressure groups ? "piggybacking", described very well in another of my favourite blogs recently:

"Piggybacking

This is the insistence that any movement for social change has to make room on its agenda for all the other currently popular movements for social change, and has to divert some of its time, labor, and resources to each of these other movements. Start a movement for any one purpose, and you can count on being swarmed by activists who insist they want to be your allies. Some insist that they?re eager to help you so long as you?re willing to help them, some insist that you can best pursue your goal by helping them pursue theirs, some insist that theirs is so much more important than yours that if you?re a decent person you should drop your cause and join them, but it all amounts to a demand that you divert some of your money, time, labor, and other resources from your cause to theirs.

Behind the facade of solidarity, that is, the social-change scene is a Darwinian environment in which movements compete for access to people, money, and enthusiasm. Piggybacking is one of the standard competitive strategies, and it really goes into overdrive as soon as your movement comes up with a plan to do something concrete about the problem you?re trying to solve. At this point, your allies can be counted on to insist that your plan isn?t acceptable unless it also does something to benefit their cause. You can?t just fix A, in other words; you?ve also got to do something about B, C, D, and so on to Z?and long before you get there, your plan has stopped being workable, because no possible set of actions can solve all the world?s problems at once."

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/learning-from-failure-modest.html

[DaveR]

Lee Jasper has accused BLM of cultural appropriation because all the City Airport protesters were white.

It's like a stupidity Olympiad, and I'm enjoying being a spectator, though I'd be very cross if I had been due to fly that day.

[lavender27]

ha ha ha , I read the subject as "black olives matter" ha ha ha , I really must get a new pair of glasses. well black olives do matter.

[Otta]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lee Jasper has accused BLM of cultural

> appropriation because all the City Airport

> protesters were white.

>

> It's like a stupidity Olympiad, and I'm enjoying

> being a spectator, though I'd be very cross if I

> had been due to fly that day.

He was also pretty unimpressed with the idiot white people that took part, saying "even our struggle no longer our own".

I've yet to see a single person of any colour support what these dickheads did the other day.

[Neoralp]

It seems that this topic is quite relevant now, so I would like to express my opinion.

I completely agree with the author of this topic, because the protesters are not talking about equality and equal rights of all people, they want to separate their race and this is absolutely wrong.

I would recommend that you review statistics on the safety of various states in the United States and the population of the African American race there. If you find these statistics, you will see that the safest states in the United States have the lowest number of African Americans, so such statistics probably say something, but no one wants to pay attention to it.

And for supporters of this movement, I would recommend reading the Harlem Renaissance cultural movement (use this link), which fought for the revival of African - American art and literature centered in Harlem, Manhattan, New York, spanning the 1920s. At the time, it was known as the New Negro Movement, named after the New Negro Anthology of 1925, edited by Alain Locke. The movement also included new African-American cultural expressions in urban areas in the northeastern and Midwestern United States affected by the Great Migration, of which Harlem was the largest.

I'm sure. that it will be useful and interesting. And it will be a bright example for you of a real civilized struggle for your rights.

[Blah Blah]

That tries to argue that division has everything to do with ethnic origin and not socioeconomic outcomes, or a whole range of other determining factors, the legacy of history, slavery and so on. Of course there are more palatable forms of expression, protest, and pursuit of justice, but when things are slow to change, or never change (seemingly), an outpouring of frustration and anger followed by a militancy is usually what happens.

We are now in an era where a Police Officer can suffocate a detainee on youtube live, and instead of addressing that, some people seek instead to act as though black people have nothing to complain about anymore. Belittle those who do as marxists, supremacists, militants, when they just want police officers to stop racially profiling them. No-one is even talking about that anymore it seems.

[EDguy89]

Neoralp Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It seems that this topic is quite relevant now, so

> I would like to express my opinion.

> I completely agree with the author of this topic,

> because the protesters are not talking about

> equality and equal rights of all people, they want

> to separate their race and this is absolutely

> wrong.

> I would recommend that you review statistics on

> the safety of various states in the United States

> and the population of the African American race

> there. If you find these statistics, you will see

> that the safest states in the United States have

> the lowest number of African Americans, so such

> statistics probably say something, but no one

> wants to pay attention to it.

> And for supporters of this movement, I would

> recommend reading the Harlem Renaissance cultural

> movement, which fought for the revival of African

> - American art and literature centered in Harlem,

> Manhattan, New York, spanning the 1920s. At the

> time, it was known as the New Negro Movement,

> named after the New Negro Anthology of 1925,

> edited by Alain Locke. The movement also included

> new African-American cultural expressions in urban

> areas in the northeastern and Midwestern United

> States affected by the Great Migration, of which

> Harlem was the largest.

> I'm sure. that it will be useful and interesting.

> And it will be a bright example for you of a real

> civilized struggle for your rights.

I mean, you're just wrong.

First, your correlation by just looking at "safest states" and "whitest states" don't tell the whole story. I'd know because I'm from New Hampshire which routinely lands at the top of both of those lists.

What you're implying is that the safest states are the whitest states, and the more black people in a given state, the less safe it becomes. You're implying that black people are the cause of the problem. That's racist. It's also wrong.

How well have the states at the bottom of the list made opportunities for people to advance? How do the safest states vote? How much do those states spend on education? How well do those states adhere to keeping religion out of school?

You can take that list and start making correlations in different areas. Many of the states that are the "safest" are also the states that have the highest education spending per capita.

I'd wager that education makes a larger impact on the safety of states rather than the color of the populace's skin.

However, since you like looking at some statistics and making assumptions, I'll do the same.

New Hampshire is the third whitest state in the US with 95% white people. It's also the 4th highest for opioid overdose deaths. How come white people are all drug addicts?

[KidKruger]

Well said blah blah.

To conclude that a less safe state is simply due to the AA population level is pretty messed-up.

My own initial thought would be the conditions that minority groups are subjected to (through being ?bottom of the pile?) is a more likely cause of crime, leading to perception of apparent safety.

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That tries to argue that division has everything

> to do with ethnic origin and not socioeconomic

> outcomes, or a whole range of other determining

> factors, the legacy of history, slavery and so on.

> Of course there are more palatable forms of

> expression, protest, and pursuit of justice, but

> when things are slow to change, or never change

> (seemingly), an outpouring of frustration and

> anger followed by a militancy is usually what

> happens.

>

> We are now in an era where a Police Officer can

> suffocate a detainee on youtube live, and instead

> of addressing that, some people seek instead to

> act as though black people have nothing to

> complain about anymore. Belittle those who do as

> marxists, supremacists, militants, when they just

> want police officers to stop racially profiling

> them. No-one is even talking about that anymore it

> seems.

[TheCat]

I have criticised Blm before. But this is rascist and ridiculous

[Neoralp]

EDguy89 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I mean, you're just wrong.

>

> First, your correlation by just looking at "safest

> states" and "whitest states" don't tell the whole

> story. I'd know because I'm from New Hampshire

> which routinely lands at the top of both of those

> lists.

>

> What you're implying is that the safest states are

> the whitest states, and the more black people in a

> given state, the less safe it becomes. You're

> implying that black people are the cause of the

> problem. That's racist. It's also wrong.

>

> How well have the states at the bottom of the list

> made opportunities for people to advance? How do

> the safest states vote? How much do those states

> spend on education? How well do those states

> adhere to keeping religion out of school?

>

> You can take that list and start making

> correlations in different areas. Many of the

> states that are the "safest" are also the states

> that have the highest education spending per

> capita.

>

> I'd wager that education makes a larger impact on

> the safety of states rather than the color of the

> populace's skin.

>

> However, since you like looking at some statistics

> and making assumptions, I'll do the same.

>

> New Hampshire is the third whitest state in the US

> with 95% white people. It's also the 4th highest

> for opioid overdose deaths. How come white people

> are all drug addicts?

Understand me correctly, I don't want to say that African Americans are a danger, I'm just guided by statistics.

But even if we forget about statistics and look at recent events, the most striking thing that could be remembered would be looting and looting. Is this normal? Is this a struggle for equality?

Why did some African Americans stand up for whites and say that looting was not normal, and other African Americans just robbed and destroyed everything in their path.

Of course, I understand that not only African Americans but also whites did this, but the fact remains. African Americans create bad opinions about themselves through looting.

[Blah Blah]

Neoralp, just stop it. You are fooling no-one. You are guided by nothing but your simple minded racism.

So I went a fact-checked your premise of correlation between rates of African American population, and crime rates, and guess what, it isn't true! Alaska has the highest crime rate in America, and yet only ranks at 34 in terms of percentage of population that are African American. New Mexico is second in terms of crime rate and ranks at 40th for African American population. Tennessee, Arkansas and Nevada come in next. Let's see how they do for African Americans! 11, 13 and 26. So stop writing nonsense.

Edited to add, that when comparing unemployment rates to crime levels however, there absolutely is a correlation between unemployment level and where that state ranks in crime statistics. The bottom 10 states in terms of crime rate, also sit in the bottom third of unemployment rates. The top ten states for crime, all sit in the top half of the unemployment rate charts. And the difference in percentages? Higher crime areas have between two and three times the levels of unemployment of those low crime rate states. Nevada has a whopping four times the level of unemployment of Idaho for example. That is how you analyse statistics.

[SpringTime]

Having skipped to the end, are we talking about BLM contexts in a few US crime stats or is there something more relevant and useful potentially in play - involving, or perhaps more importantly not involving local people and other people in the UK, in our cities and elsewhere.

[JohnL]

Neoralp Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Understand me correctly, I don't want to say that

> African Americans are a danger, I'm just guided by

> statistics.

> But even if we forget about statistics and look at

> recent events, the most striking thing that could

> be remembered would be looting and looting. Is

> this normal? Is this a struggle for equality?

> Why did some African Americans stand up for whites

> and say that looting was not normal, and other

> African Americans just robbed and destroyed

> everything in their path.

> Of course, I understand that not only African

> Americans but also whites did this, but the fact

> remains. African Americans create bad opinions

> about themselves through looting.

Be careful of statistics

You could replace "African American" by just "Men" or a number of other groups and get the same result.

[TheCat]

Unfort. None of the statistical 'analysis' suggested above is in anyway useful unless you're just trying to manipulate numbers to support a pre-existing hypothesis. Single-variate correlation is is in no way a useful tool to add to this discussion (and that before we even consider this like auto-correlation). Least of all when the whole discussion is centre around causation....and we all know the old (and totally accurate) saying about correlation and causation. So single variant correlation and simple regression are favourite tools of people on the edges of both the right and left, as it allows them to seem like they are informed, and are backed by 'the numbers'....without taking any account for the mtlti-variate nature of most variable relationships.

Lies. Damn lies and statistics....

[Blah Blah]

To be fair TheCat, I made that point in my initial response to NeoR, so your reply is making what point exactly? There are correlations between socioeconomic outcomes and crime, repeated the world over. Yes it is a rather complex thing, but nonetheless, it is a better indicator of something, than the nonsense that NeoR is trying to push around ethnicity and size of minority populations. Isn't that what counter argument is supposed to do? Unpick or debunk the claim being made by a more reasonable or accurate example of that type of claim. There is plenty of real world data to draw upon, that absolutely destroys NeoR's assertions.

[TheCat]

I agree with your response to NeoR's post. I agree that his/her post was nonsense. I said as much in my original post above also.

The conversation then seemed to move on to statistics analysis. I don't agree with your statement....

'That is how you analyse statistics"

That is my point.

[malumbu]

This comes across as a lot of white privileged people. Perhaps I am one of them but I don't feel the need to post anything that supports this status quo/power base. Apols as there are more informed posts on here but I've just got into an argument about taking the knee at football matches - where the forgotten white working class are expressing themselves. Just go with it.

[UptownDully21To22]

U man that are all being racist dont lemme catch u ill buss your head

[KidKruger]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This comes across as a lot of white privileged

> people.

I guess people interpret things according to their own bias.

[malumbu]

NHS is a bit of a monster. The things talked about here probably apply across the board, therefore are systemic not limited to one hospital. Heaven knows I've had enough frustrations. Successive governments have failed to tame the bureaucratic beast. But then again have you tried dealing with the Met Police and Court Services? (my recent experience as a witness) - still in a chalk/slate, telegram and pony express, rather than digital by default. What I object to here is the whole tone used, as I pointed out early on. If it had been titled 'help needed in dealing with KCH' and requested constructive advice that would be a different thing.

[TheCat]

Wrong thread I think Mal.

Hitting those bubble already?:)

[henrylmosley]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have just seen the bazoocam videos asserting that 'the

> climate crisis is a racist crisis'.

>

> We live in an unequal world where power, money and

> influence is concentrated in the hands of a tiny

> number of people. Marginalised groups, poor

> nations and those who lack access to resources,

> and /or are subject to discrimination, may well

> find themselves unfairly disadvantaged in all

> manner of ways. This includes being

> disproportionately affected by pollution and

> globally, by the effects of climate change.

>

> At the same time, the most affluent individuals,

> nations and societies are able to do more to

> mitigate the worst effects of pollution and

> mediate the impacts of climate change on their

> lives.

>

> Never the less, climate change will be felt by the

> whole planet and privilege can only shields people

> so far and for so long.

>

> The way societies have developed, are organised

> and resources distributed may well be racist, but

> climate change is indiscriminate. We need to build

> the broad alliances necessary to create successful

> social change.

>

> In short, we need to tackle racism and inequality.

> We need to tackle climate change. Making climate

> change specifically a BAME issue?? it feels

> reductionist to me and not particularly helpful.

It is strange to see how this topic has now changed in consideration after recent events. It's long past time to raise the issue of climate and resources. It's hard to think about.