Bloody Sunday.....Official Inquiry to be published 15 June

[Mick Mac]

The conclusion of this long running Inquiry is eagerly awaited. When published, in two weeks time, the hope is that the report will be honest.

Long-awaited Bloody Sunday report due June 15 2010

LONDON

Wed May 26, 2010 10:23pm BST

The inquiry into the 1972 killings of 13 civilians by paratroopers in Londonderry was launched by former Prime Minister Tony Blair in 1998. It lasted until 2004, hearing 900 witnesses and costing some 200 million pounds.

An original 1972 investigation exonerated the paratroopers who shot marchers at a civil rights demonstration in Londonderry, the province's second city.

Thirteen people, all unarmed Catholics, were killed when the soldiers opened fire in the staunchly nationalist Bogside area of the city. A 14th victim later died from wounds. The troops said they shot at people armed with guns or nail bombs.

Families of the victims had been pressing the government for years to publish the inquiry report.

The previous government had said it aimed to publish the document before the May 6 general election, but later said it would not be able to do so because the report had to be checked for legal and security reasons.

The Northern Ireland Office has said the checks had not resulted in any changes being made to the report.

[Mick Mac]

Access to the Inquiry will be given to all interested parties tomorrow morning. David Cameron will make a statementto the Commons in the afternoon.

This is a short film about the events of 30 January 1972.

 

[Marmora Man]

I hope, but fear otherwise, that all commentators will

remember the L P Hartley quote "the past is a different country, they do things differently there".

[Mick Mac]

For those there on that day, it was the present not the past. If its in my lifetime its relatively recent and shooting minors in the back is never excusable by the easy adaptation of prose.

[DJKillaQueen]

I support the Paul Greengrass version of events. A terrible tragedy happened on that day. The past is the past. Acknowledge it and move forward. Most people just want to raise their children and live with their familes in safety, and don't give a f%&?! for political idealism.......and the fascist bullies that terrorise their comunities.......

[Brendan]

I?m afraid it is not for you, me or anyone else but the victims to decide whether or not they should or will ?move on?.

[Mick Mac]

It's in the past, that's correct. But there was a right time to make an apology for the wrongs of that day but its better late than never. Let's hope that apology comes today.

Its nothing to do with ploitical idealism or IRA bullies. Its the most extreme example of when our government and our forces turned their guns on innocent British civilians.

Tony Blair had many faults but he was correct in setting up this Inquiry and it has the potential to heal a lot of wounds.

[Brendan]

It took the South African government 34 years to properly admit culpability for Sharpville. The ardently right-wing, those with their heads in the sand and those who couldn?t stomach the implication that their ideology and blue eyed boys in uniform could possibly be wrong all said that there was no point, that they were scratching at old wounds etc. But when the truth was properly aired and culpability admitted it made a tangible difference.

It didn?t change the past but it did make everyone feel like a weight had been lifted.

[Marmora Man]

Tony Blair had many faults but he was correct in setting up this Inquiry and it has the potential to heal a lot of wounds.

Mick Mac - I believe you are wrong.

To my mind the report has the potential to open up many wounds that were, almost, healed by time and the peace process that commenced in 1995. Judging from pre report discussions on Newsnight yesterday and the Today programme this morning there will be some that wish to see paratroopers prosecuted by the CPS, others that will bring private prosecutions if the CPS does not take action and others from all sides, altho' unfortunately their voices seem muted, that recognise life is now different and wish simply for acknowledgement of errors (on all sides) and to move on. I fear the Saville report will be picked over for selective quotes and points to support various views and factions and that this action will not heal or help the majority.

14 people died as a result of Bloody Sunday - a total of over 3,000 died in the "Troubles". Violence, on all sides was already an established tactic before that day, so Bloody Sunday did not precipitate the three decades of violence. It was merely another bloody, tragic and early milestone on the path that had so many similar events. All para military offenders and perpetrators have been given pardons or early release - to bring prosecutions against the soldiers now, for one specific tragedy among so many, would be counter productive. Martin McGuiness has said that he would have been content with an acknowledgement of fault, an apology and some compensation.

To say, as Brendan has, that the victims and their relatives must decide is naive. The greater good is served by the Northern Ireland community, the British government and the Army taking a responsible view, acknowledging the errors of the past and making amends but not seeking to punish or single out individual soldiers - who were the most junior people placed, by their peculiar role, into a difficult, frightening and confused position over 30 years ago with insufficient training and skills to deal with the situation.

[Mick Mac]

Brendan Wrote:

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>

> It didn?t change the past but it did make everyone

> feel like a weight had been lifted.

Spot on Brendan.

[Mick Mac]

MM - I don't expect or want anyone to be prosecuted as a result of this. That would be inapprorpiate. An apology would be good.

Your comparison with killings by terrorists/paramilitaires is inappropriate - we need to expect our forces to act within the law, not lower themselves to the level of terrorists.

[Mick Mac]

From the BBC website:

1534 David Cameron says the conclusions of this report "are absolutely clear". What happened on Bloody Sunday was "unjustifiable and wrong", he says. No warning was given to any civilians before soldiers opened fire. None of the soldiers fired in response to attacks by petrol bombers or stone-throwers. Some of those killed or injured were clearly fleeing or going to help those injured or dying.

1538 None of the casualties was posing a threat or doing anything that would justify their shooting, David Cameron says. There is no point in trying to soften or equivocate what is in this report :the events of Bloody Sunday were not justified, he says. Mr Cameron adds: "What happened should never, ever have happened - some members of our armed forces acted wrongly. On behalf of our government and our country I am deeply sorry."

That is a significant apology, for which many people will be grateful. Its what was needed and ends a long wait.

[Marmora Man]

Mick Mac - I agree the apology is absolutely the right thing for David Cameron to offer on behalf of our government. I hope others are as generous as you in accepting it, moving on and not dwelling on the past. I still fear this may not be the case.

[ontheedge]

I think this is what a lot of people wanted no hidden agenda nothing sinister just a heartfelt gratitude that at last there is an acknowledgment

[Brendan]

Fear of its effect on the peace process (which I can fully understand) aside would you not rather have the truth out than have armed forces and a government who cover-up or try to deny the shooting of innocent people?

[Michael Palaeologus]

An interesting conundrum. The end of the Troubles saw murderers from both sides released early - some of them after having served very short sentences.

So, if court cases are brought against former soldiers and they are found guilty, what happens? They get put away for life when terrorists (or freedom fighters - depending on your perspective) convicted of murder, have been set free?

Having said that, the evidence required by a public enquiry is rather different from that required by a court, whether criminal or civil. After so much time and publicity, it is difficult to see how specific eye witness evidence could be seen as being beyond reasonable doubt.

[Mick Mac]

There will be no prosecutions Michael P . So I hope your point will not be of real relevance.

However we have the right to expect our forces of law and order to be exactly that, people we trust to enforce law and order. Their actions should not be compared in any way to those of terrorists.

Heads of State do not stand up in Parliaments and in the view of the world, make apologies for the actions of terrorists, but they do so where the forces of law and order have killed innocent people. This does not happen very often, thankfully. Therefore when it does happen, it is significant.

Eamon McCann, who helped organise that civil rights march was on News 24 tonight - He said today that when he heard the report he felt like floating up to the ceiling of the Guildhall, he felt so good that the truth was properly acknowledged. Edward Daly - said a burden had been lifted from his shoulders today.

Lots of innocent people died in the Troubles. Many on all sides. People killed by the IRA, their families know that they have been illegally killed. We feel for all of them today. But to be killed by the state forces needs an apology, and today that finally came. David Cameron's statement was as clear, honest and open as can be. I admire him greatly for that.

It is interesting that he began by saying how deeply patriotic he was and rightly proud of the armed forces, which is what most people feel, but I suspect until recently he did not know the full extent of Bloody Sunday, until it was confirmed by a Law Lord:

 

[Keef]

The thing that gets me about this, as well as the Hillsborough Disaster, and a few other things, is the calls for "Justice". Yesterday, they were saying at last we have "justice". To me, what they have is "the truth", which would also seem to be what the Hillsborough families are (quite rightly) after.

Just can't get my head around the use of the word "justice" in asking for the truth. Probably shouldn't bug me so much, but it does.

As an aside, there is a lot of talk today about real legal justice being sought in this case, particularly after a soldier who shot at least 3 people that day, and who has seemingly lied on several occasions, including to this very enquiry.

[Brendan]

I think the term justice comes in regarding the implication of guilt upon the people who were killed.

The implication was that they were engaged in terrorist activity, were therefore guilty and justly killed but now their names have been cleared as it were.

Once again though it is not for us to say what the people who lost family members and friends should see as justice.

[Mick Mac]

Keef Wrote:

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>

> Just can't get my head around the use of the word

> "justice" in asking for the truth. Probably

> shouldn't bug me so much, but it does.

>

The justice is that this Inquiry confirms those who died were innocent - The original 1972 Inquiry implied those who died had done something to deserve being shot - that wrong has now been put right, the change from the implication of guilt to confirmation of innocence is the "justice" the families have been seeking ever since the original Widgery Report.

[OliviaDee]

yes Brendan that is right and why Marmora Man is so wrong to suggest that those wounds were almost healed by time. I am a Derry girl and believe me, 38 years has come nowhere close to healing them. it is awful to prematurely lose a loved one in any circumstances but to lose a child/parent/partner shot in the back whilst trying to escape the official army, and who is then branded a terrorist and a threat and therefore a legitimate target, is simply too much to expect time to heal. Justice was needed and mercifully delivered by the truth.

Also consider how many of Derry's citizen's gave eyewitness reports and how many more didn't but saw first-hand what happened and have had to live with the lies of the Widgery Report, backed by the official government. That was a truly oppressed community. It was not just the families who saw justice and exoneration yesterday.

yes the past is past. But it's not over till it's over either. And that only happened yesterday afternoon. And so today is the day to move on. The families have always said they wanted justice and they got that in the form of Saville's incredible report and Cameron's ensuing apology. So far it does not look like there is a desire to prosecute coming from the families.

A very very moving day.

*edited for clarity of my references*

[SCSB79]

Is anyone going to apologise to all the families of innocent men/women and children murdered by the terrorist organisations?

[Keef]

That has been discussd on the radio today SCSB79, and one could argue that there should be full enquiries in to a lot of incidents, but with this one costing ?192m, I can't see it happening in a rush.

MM and Brendan, I get your points, but for me it's still just the truth, and "justice" doesn't come in to it. But as Brendan says, it's only the families of the victims who can really decide, and if they feel they've had justice, then good on them.

[OliviaDee]

it's so simple. the victims were wrongfully and unjustly accused of being terrorists engaged in terrorist activity and therefore considered legitimate targets and shot dead. That was a massive miscarriage of justice. Would you not see it that way if they had been gaoled instead for 38 years and released yesterday as the innocents they are?

SCS - Terrorists by their very definition act outside the law. The atrocities of Bloody Sunday and the Widgery Report were carried out by the British Army and the British Government who are supposed to be and uphold the law. There is a massive massive difference.

[KidKruger]

Shame on UK Govt for not holding their hand up and admitting much, much earlier that errors were made and things got out of (military) control.

A lot of the hatred and anti-British enlistment was very likely down to this specific incident.

I doubt if the 'enquiry' has taught anyone anything that wasn't already known by the civilians and the military.

The only thing that's changed is an admission of wrongdoing and an apology. Which at a large portion of a Billion pounds is an outrage.