Table manners questioned in my own home

[LondonMix]

It sounds like Louisa severed up her husbands plate first and he immediately started eating before others got their plate (a relatively short while after).

Unless something has gone bizarrely wrong, no one should be waiting more than a minute or so for everyone to be served at a sit down dinner. That's why the etiquette rule isn't unreasonable. I say this as someone who has people over to eat at least once a month.

If anyone has to wait longer than that, then the host should apologize (having served the guests first) and tell the guests to go ahead and eat as it will be a while for some unforeseen reason until the rest of the food is ready.

If its a huge buffet style event / BBQ or party with loads of people over, then its not expected for people to wait to eat.

[Angelina]

I can understand Louisa serving her hubby first. Old patriarchal rules and maybe not be the most modern spin on things.

In my house, kids eat first.

Guests questioning the host - out of the question.

[peckham_ryu]

It all depends how formal the occasion was. Was it black tie, white tie, or simply lounge suits?

If black or white then I'm afraid Mr L's comportment was nothing short of scandalous. However, nowadays gentlemen are excused from standing for the ladies when the occasion is lounge suits only. By extension, one could argue that this is a setting in which ladies must know their place. To wit, speaking out on matters concerning how gentlemen conduct themselves would lie far beyond the accepted scope of ladylike topics for which the ladies' input is welcomed (such as flower arranging, organising the local tombola, and so on).

I don't have my Debretts to hand but am confident I have recalled the relevant etiquette correctly here.

[aerie]

not so much Debrett as Harry Enfield

[ianr]

> I don't have my Debretts to hand but am confident I have recalled the relevant etiquette correctly here.

May I assist? http://www.debretts.com/expertise/etiquette/table-manners/table-rules

[Robert Poste's Child]

peckham_ryu Wrote:

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> By extension, one could argue

> that this is a setting in which ladies must know

> their place. To wit, speaking out on matters

> concerning how gentlemen conduct themselves would

> lie far beyond the accepted scope of ladylike

> topics for which the ladies' input is welcomed

> (such as flower arranging, organising the local

> tombola, and so on).

>.

I find that a bit offensive, even as a joke.

[Sue]

[Seabag]

The food is served already plated ?

Right there's your 'problem' Lou

[Jules-and-Boo]

oh dear Louisa, no 'help'? THAT would have given them something to talk about.

Perhaps invite them again to make amends (;-)) and borrow someone rather lovely to wait....

Joking aside, it all sounds rather formal and unfriendly for an informal dinner with friends.

[Louisa]

Mostly because I wasn't over enthusiastic about said gathering, I put minimal effort in to begin with. Wasn't being nasty or rude, just couldn't be arsed. I would have been happy just sat in the garden drinking wine in the sun (or lack of) for the evening but this lot are teetotaller's anyway so that wasn't on the cards. I honestly did try my best to make them feel welcome despite my reservations, and I didn't knowingly serve Mr L first because of some sort of partriachal status, he was just closest to me walking into the room. Anything to have a dig with some people it would seem. I would never personally put food out to help themselves unless it was a Sunday roast or Christmas. I try to be as informal as I possibly can.

Louisa.

[rendelharris]

Seabag Wrote:

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> The food is served already plated ?

>

> Right there's your 'problem' Lou

Yep, bang down four or five serving dishes, everyone helps themselves and each other, no questions of precedence - and it makes for a more convivial atmosphere as well.

[Jules-and-Boo]

saves guessing what everyone wants, too.....

Lou - have you tried making G&T ice lollies?

[Alex K]

Surely all the rules that surround eating have one thing at their heart: Make it clear that one thinks that food is unimportant.

Take small bites. Eat slowly and delicately, rather than gulch-and-gobble. Use your spoon rather than lifting your soup bowl and drinking from it, and tilt the bowl away from you because that looks less greedy. Put your peas onto the back of your fork, slowing yourself down. Move your utensils to your mouth slowly; don't hurry so that you carelessly clank your cutlery against your teeth. Cut your meat one bite at a time, not all at once as Nurse does for little children. Don't throw yourself onto the contents of your plate. Always leave food on your plate ("for Miss Manners").

Indifference toward food is key. "I can wait to pick up my knife and fork till everyone at table has been served; I am enjoying myself in conversing with my neighbours".

Of course when no guests join one one reverts, through indolence, to eating as if one were at trough rather than at table. When entertaining, however, whether in a restaurant or at home, one really should up one's game, and remember that sociability, rather than feeding, is the purpose of the meal. Better luck next time, Louisa.

[Louisa]

Food is for wimps IMO. I would much rather have got stuck into the messy stuff and been half cut by the time they arrived. Maybe we could have even laughed off our contempt for one another. But no, they wanted to sup on ice water and talk about the weather. From now on, guests get alcohol or nothing.

Louisa.

[peckham_ryu]

Louisa Wrote:

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> this lot are teetotaller's

No further explanation required. Mr L fully exonerated, dress code notwithstanding.

The secret to successful social teetotalling is laissez faire. Uptight abstention is a fast track to Coventry. There should be a test before you're allowed off the sauce.

[Horsebox]

Futterman's Rule should have applied here.

If the host and the guests all abide by Futterman's, then awkward situations such as this will be avoided.

[aerie]

Thank you Sue !!

[Grok]

1. Yes, it is bad etiquette to start eating before all have been served unless the host allows this.

2. It is rude and objectionable to eat with mouth open.

3. Guests should be served first because they are guests

4. Guests should not comment on hosts etiquette

[Burbage]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Mr Louisa always

> tucks in once it's landed on the table. So he gets

> his first and starts eating,

Although it's not clear from your prose, I'd hazard a guess as this being a household where Pa traditionally gets fed first, probably on a table covered in 'varnished cloth' (to borrow Mayhew's phrase), and the rest of the family eat a little later, when Pa is safely ensconced in the arm-chair, ready to regale them with improving tales or selections from books of sermons, as appropriate to the traditions of the home.

In such sections of society, where people know their place without the need for 'etiquette', guests should no more expect domestic traditions to be overturned as they would expect to find a hired waiter dispensing champagne or a peripatetic cook turning a lamb on a jack.

Although Mayhew, Pepys and the Grossmiths were not writing of our time, many of the customs they describe have survived to the present day and I would expect literate guests to be at least aware of the possibility that not all homes are run along the lines of restaurants, and refrain from complaining when they don't. However, as it would be a liberty to presume any such literacy, and the duty of the host is always to make their guests feel as comfortable as possible, whatever may arise, it would seem there is nothing to complain of.

Some have expressed the opposite view, that it is the duty of guests to pander to the host and that failure to do so demands some form of retribution. That, however, is to misunderstand the point of hospitality. Offering the pleasures of one's table to others is not supposed to be a way of buying flattery or displaying superiority, but a generous way to express regard from one's guests. Though I can understand, especially in London, why more mercenary motives can prevail, the consensus of several centuries, and cultures, seems to be that they shouldn't.

[uncleglen]

This should be de rigueur in every household before a meal.....

[miga]

Burbage Wrote:

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> Offering the pleasures of one's table

> to others is not supposed to be a way of buying

> flattery or displaying superiority, but a generous

> way to express regard from one's guests.

For one's guests, not from, no?

But yeah, sounds like Lou's guests fairly recently learnt some "rules" and are now keen to show their learning off. The real point they've missed, I think, is that etiquette is a relative thing, defined by generation, class, region, ethnicity blah blah. Basically, what Burbage said.

How about that Daily Mail etiquette expert - he takes the type of soap in a household as a class signifier. Jesus wept. Makes you wanna stick pubes on it, for avoidance of doubt that you give a fuck.

[Jess85]

I go with serve guests firsts but everyone waits until all served before eating. IMO starting before everyone else is bad manners (IMO!) but questioning the host is just as bad!

[Jules-and-Boo]

If I have friends round, I serve it in dishes on the table, everyone helps themselves - but then it's generally a bit more laid back as kids involved and other mums....

We don't have formal dinners. Is that a modern thing, or are we just not posh? At least we eat together every day - and have friends join us as much as we can. No eating in front of the TV - have to eat at dining table.

Christmas is the only exception - and that's at my sister's house.....and even then it's pretty relaxed.

[LondonMix]

Eating at the dining table everyday is dead posh!

[Jules-and-Boo]

I thought that was just practical! With kids if the tv is on - they don't pay attention to food.....