Dulwich Park - (dog) walkers and cyclists

[rendelharris]

rupert james Wrote:

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> Rollerskates, skateboards, tricycles I do not work

> that well on grassland etc.

Dogwalking works pretty well though, in my experience. Of course I welcome all the little 'uns on their various contrivances and watch out for them. But why, for example, as I saw today, feel the need to have a football kickabout on the tarmac when there's all that lovely grass available?

[first mate]

Bottom line, it's a small park so activities on foot will always take precedence, annoying if you want to cycle but cannot see cyclists ever getting right of way, even voluntarily. Dog walkers may prefer to walk dogs on lead in tarmac for a variety of reasons - to avoid other dogs that are off lead on the grassy areas, to reduce distractions of smells on grass, to avoid distraction of football and other games, to avoid picnickers; sometimes tarmac feels more comfortable to the human foot and in some level we may just automatically follow roads and paths.

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

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> Bottom line, it's a small park so activities on

> foot will always take precedence, annoying if you

> want to cycle but cannot see cyclists ever getting

> right of way, even voluntarily. Dog walkers may

> prefer to walk dogs on lead in tarmac for a

> variety of reasons - to avoid other dogs that are

> off lead on the grassy areas, to reduce

> distractions of smells on grass, to avoid

> distraction of football and other games, to avoid

> picnickers; sometimes tarmac feels more

> comfortable to the human foot and in some level we

> may just automatically follow roads and paths.

Fair enough, it's lovely cycling there anyway - I was just trying to make a suggestion which I thought might benefit all parties!

[first mate]

Fair play to you and others might agree with you. Open, civilised discussion, 'tis what the forum is for.

(Edited for typos).

[Ruffler]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I wasn't arguing with you: I just take a more

> > pragmatic view. Hard to imagine all the

> > pedestrians walking in single file on the

> narrow,

> > sloping pavement, dogs on short leads, while

> > cyclists have the road to themselves!

>

> Didn't think you were! The pavements are eight

> feet wide...when we walk in DP we use them or walk

> on the grass. The signs in DP actually indicate

> that dogs should be on short leads at all times,

> which I think is daft, but I can't understand why

> dogwalkers, and other walkers, don't enjoy the

> grass when it's as dry as it is at the moment,

> instead choosing to walk round on hot hard tarmac.

The signs about keeping dogs on a short lead are for the inner parts of the park only. No such signs around the outer perimeter.

[rendelharris]

Ruffler Wrote:

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> The signs about keeping dogs on a short lead are

> for the inner parts of the park only. No such

> signs around the outer perimeter.

Fair enough so, maybe that's why so many dog owners do stick to the road. I think that's a shame though, obviously there are issues with dangerous dogs and so on but I can't really see why responsible owners of well trained dogs shouldn't be allowed to let their pets off the leash over those lovely acres (a lot of them do anyway and it doesn't seem to do anyone much harm).

[Sue]

I'm quite concerned about this.

I haven't cycled for years, am far from confident and am taking advantage of Southwark Council's free lessons- which for beginners take place in parks.

My second lesson will be in Dulwich Park, and my instructor has advised me to practice there in the meantime.

If people are walking dogs with a leash stretched across the road, then that fills me with horror frankly.

[spider69]

Will not be difficult to see them and walking my dog each day I cannot remember seeing dog leads stretched across the park road.

Horror story that really does not exist.

If you cannot manage this park road with confidence you should not be on the road.

[rendelharris]

spider69 Wrote:

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> Will not be difficult to see them and walking my

> dog each day I cannot remember seeing dog leads

> stretched across the park road.

>

> Horror story that really does not exist.

>

> If you cannot manage this park road with

> confidence you should not be on the road.

It's not a "horror story" by any means, that's just silly nomenclature, but it's the honest truth that today I had to come to a complete stop as a lady walking a Jack Russell was doing exactly what I said, walking on the outside of the road with her dog on the bridlepath the opposite side with the lead stretching the width of the road - and it's not the first time. That's kind of what inspired me to write what I still maintain was merely a polite suggestion that some people could show some more consideration to fellow park users, however much some people have chosen to be offended by it.

Sue, good luck with your lessons and don't let the naysayers put you off, you'll get there. I've been riding round the busiest parts of London for almost thirty years and never had a serious accident - just stay aware, make strong signals and the second something feels wrong just stop and get off the road.

[KidKruger]

Problem with Dulwich Park is that everyone there thinks they have the god-given right to walk. Run, roller-skate, ride a horse, ride those stupid hire trike things, etc., whatever, over anyone else's right to do anything.

More than any park I know - like people step up a notch in the up-their-own-arse stakes as they pass through the gates.

[Jules-and-Boo]

you could even take your bike on a train and cycle around somewhere new - and less busy.

[rendelharris]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> you could even take your bike on a train and cycle

> around somewhere new - and less busy.

So rather than cycle round our local park - to which after all we do contribute as council tax payers and in which cycling is fully permitted - being courteous, aware and respectful of other park users and hoping for the same in return, we should take a train elsewhere? Hmm.

[keane]

It's a park that's the whole point, it's nice to be able to walk around it & not have to be squeezed onto a pavement as you are when you are on a normal street! Unless there is a designated cycle path I don't think you can argue that bikes should take priority over people enjoying walking around the park and actually it is nicer to walk on the middle of the path rather than the sloping uneven pavement section. The velodrome is available down the road for proper cycling with no fear of pedestrians in the way!

[Sue]

spider69 Wrote:

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>

> If you cannot manage this park road with

> confidence you should not be on the road.

How very helpful and encouraging.

Better suggest to Southwark Council they take their cycling lessons elsewhere then.

Any suggestions as to where beginner cyclists should gain confidence if not in a place without cars?

ETA: And obviously I am not cycling on roads with cars yet, otherwise I'd hardly need to practice in a park.

[DuncanW]

Ignore that - Dulwich Park is a great place to learn or practise cycling.

It's a shared space and most people are courteous and considerate. Some less so, but that's life in general, isn't it.

Peckham Rye is also suitable. It doesn't have the wide circuit path that DP has, but is probably a bit quieter - maybe because of that.

[Sue]

I had my first lesson in Peckham Rye Park, but doing U turns on the relatively narrow paths was a bit hairy.

That's why I'm moving to Dulwich Park to build up my confidence.

[Sally Eva]

Hi Sue, are you in touch with Cycle Confident? The council funds them and they are very good.

Once you are steady on your wheels Southwark cyclists do Saturday am social rides on quiet back streets and parks. We post them all in the What's On section. This saturday they are taking part in the national butterfly count and going from park to park counting butterflies. What could be nicer. When you start to feel up to it, get in touch or just turn up to one of our rides and enjoy them with us.

The butterfly ride is here: http://southwarkcyclists.org.uk/events/butterfly-count-peckham-healthy-ride/

ignore the picture -- I don't approve of thinking of cycling as medicinal.

[wulfhound]

Any suggestions as to where beginner cyclists should gain confidence if not in a place without cars?

ETA: And obviously I am not cycling on roads with cars yet, otherwise I'd hardly need to practice in a park.

Don't worry, you'll be fine! Even when there are dog leads stretched out, there's plenty of space to pass around them & plenty of time to anticipate. It's not like they appear out of nowhere.

Second what DuncanW says - also, the park's quieter outside the school hols naturally, and during the nice long evenings we're getting at the moment.

I'm a fast cyclist when I need to be, but parks are above all there to be enjoyed.

[Sue]

Sally Eva Wrote:

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> Hi Sue, are you in touch with Cycle Confident? The

> council funds them and they are very good.

>

>

Yes, thanks Sally Eva, that's who I'm doing my lessons with.

ETA: And thanks for the info about cycle rides!

[heartblock]

The park is fine to cycle in, just need to be a bit careful at the weekends as dogs and children will run across the road without any warning. I tend to cycle slowly anyway and usually everyone is very good natured and I like watching the dogs have fun in the park.

The only two times I have witnessed angst is a woman on roller blades going very quickly having a go at a dog owner because she had to swerve to not hit the dog and a pedestrian who had a go at me (a bit sweary in front of his kids) when I rang my little toy town bell on my bike to warn them I was behind them. No accounting for shouty people really.

[Jules-and-Boo]

well not my point at all RH - actually suggesting exploring and using your newfound love of cycling to do my than laps around the Rye....

In fact I would struggle to see how you could gleen such hostility.

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > you could even take your bike on a train and

> cycle

> > around somewhere new - and less busy.

>

> So rather than cycle round our local park - to

> which after all we do contribute as council tax

> payers and in which cycling is fully permitted -

> being courteous, aware and respectful of other

> park users and hoping for the same in return, we

> should take a train elsewhere? Hmm.

[rendelharris]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> well not my point at all RH - actually suggesting

> exploring and using your newfound love of cycling

> to do my than laps around the Rye....

>

> In fact I would struggle to see how you could

> gleen such hostility.

>

> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > you could even take your bike on a train and

> > cycle

> > > around somewhere new - and less busy.

> >

> > So rather than cycle round our local park - to

> > which after all we do contribute as council tax

> > payers and in which cycling is fully permitted

> -

> > being courteous, aware and respectful of other

> > park users and hoping for the same in return,

> we

> > should take a train elsewhere? Hmm.

Strange assumption to make about my love of cycling, seeing as I've been mad keen on it for thirty years, across the UK and across Europe, I've done my fair share of exploring, thanks. As I said above, Mrs.H doesn't want to cycle on the roads so Dulwich Park is the ideal place for her to potter round.

[rendelharris]

keane Wrote:

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> It's a park that's the whole point, it's nice to

> be able to walk around it & not have to be

> squeezed onto a pavement as you are when you are

> on a normal street! Unless there is a designated

> cycle path I don't think you can argue that bikes

> should take priority over people enjoying walking

> around the park and actually it is nicer to walk

> on the middle of the path rather than the sloping

> uneven pavement section. The velodrome is

> available down the road for proper cycling with no

> fear of pedestrians in the way!

I didn't ask for priority, just that perhaps, as it's a shared park where cycling is permitted, some dog/children walkers (a small minority) could show a bit more consideration for cyclists by not taking up the width of the roadway and keeping an eye on kids/dogs to stop them putting themselves, and cyclists, in danger. There's plenty of room there for everyone if we share nicely, was all I was saying, though it seems some people have interpreted that as saying I want to run a Tour de France stage through the park.

[richard tudor]

Perhaps cyclists should employ the skiing rules always look ahead.

If you have to stop or avoid so be it.

There are more children, people and dogs than pedal pushers. They are not aware of danger. As it should be in a park

[rendelharris]

richard tudor Wrote:

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> Perhaps cyclists should employ the skiing rules

> always look ahead.

>

> If you have to stop or avoid so be it.

>

> There are more children, people and dogs than

> pedal pushers. They are not aware of danger. As it

> should be in a park

So although cycling is legitimately permitted in the park, and of course cyclists have to be aware of all potential hazards (and we (me and Mrs H, not all cyclists, I admit) are), nobody else has to look out for them but should do exactly as they please no matter what inconvenience or risk to fellow legitimate park users? That's one point of view. My point of view is that I think it would be rather nice if all park users (as 90% do) looked out for and were considerate of all other park users, whether walking, running, cycling, horseriding, rollerblading or whatever. That we we could all enjoy the park together instead of one group clashing with another - no matter what the ratios. That, I think, would make for a happy community we could all enjoy, instead of an "I can do this so I will" attitude.