From one to two children - any tips?

[Smiler]

Hello lovely ladies (and gents),

Anyone got any top tips on coping with the transition from one to two children? Our second girl is due in September and excitement aside am worrying about how to cope with a newborn and a two-and-a-half-year-old toddler! It feels daunting as have never felt on top of things, even with just the one child!

Main worries are:

- round 2 of sleep deprivation (our daughter only started sleeping through regularly aged 2, only a couple of months ago)

- handling colic / crying bouts at same time as looking after a toddler

- getting out and about - how d'you get out of the house / what buggy / how to have activities for the older one while fitting in feeds / naps for the little one?

- being at home full-time again (currently work part-time with toddler at nursery, which has gone quite well, and am not at all domestic or practical).

Any advice would be much appreciated!

I have absolutely NO recollection of the first few months with our daughter - does it just all come back naturally? Really hope so!

[Mellors]

I know how you feel, as my son was 21 months when daughter was born. I am a bit hazy now on the finer details (a whole 18 months in!), but I'll do my best to answer your worries:

- round 2 of sleep deprivation (our daughter only started sleeping through regularly aged 2, only a couple of months ago)

Tough one - hope you get a decent sleeper this time. I was much less inclined to pay No 2 any attention once in bed (I literally dumped her in her cot at 7pm as I had to do toddler's story etc, and I am sure she learned to self settle so much better as a result of this). I just didnt have time to do the rocking/feeding to sleep blah blah I did with No 1. She survived and sleeps amazingly well.

Oh, and if you can get them to take a bottle from early on (expressed milk if thats your thing) then get your OH to do the 10/11pm feed and go to bed as soon as you can in the evening. You have to be practical - you'll be up first thing for a 12 hour session with the toddler in the morning, so grab help at all times! I also used to get mine to do either Saturday/Sunday morning early shift so I could grab a couple of hours of extra kip.

- handling colic / crying bouts at same time as looking after a toddler

Again fingers crossed you don't get a colicky one. No 1 screamed every night from 7 - 10pm for about 4 months, and it was this I dreaded more than anything else. No 2 just didn't, thank christ. If they do you have to just juggle - in some ways the needs of the toddler are more important - the baby won't die if its in its bouncy chair/playmat crying for a few mins after all.

- getting out and about - how d'you get out of the house / what buggy / how to have activities for the older one while fitting in feeds / naps for the little one?

Double buggy (P&T) to strap 'em both in and get out of the house. My lifesaver was playgroup every single morning come hell or high water. Let the older one go mental in a safe environment and tire themselves out. Pray some kindly person makess you a cup of tea. If baby sleeps then great, if not you can sit and feed comfortably whilst toddler is entertained. Try & get them back for an earlyish lunch and chuck them both in bed whilst you collapse. Baby is going to have ot fit in with your existing routine this time round I'm afraid. Mine spent an awful lot of time asleep in the pram/car/bouncy chair/playmat.

- being at home full-time again (currently work part-time with toddler at nursery, which has gone quite well, and am not at all domestic or practical).

This is a tough one. You'll be too tired to care much really, and at the end of the day you just have to get one with it. Can you keep toddler at nursery? They love it, and it gives you some one on one time with the baby (to assuage your guilt at mostly ignoring them). I also found the creche at Beckenham Spa/Peckham Pulse a lifesaver - both open every morning, and Beckenham takes them from 3 months (and they are lovely). Chuck 'em in and go for a swim/coffee - an hour of mental downtime with no kids does wonders to make you feel human again.

Its not easy, but it is perfectly possible, sometimes even enjoyable (!), and you WILL manage better than you think I'm sure. We're all here to support you x

[sanity girl]

Thanks Smiler for starting this thread - I am in the same situation as you - expecting no.2 in september - no. 1 will be 3 and a half, and I had the same worries. Your post is really helpful Mellors - Beckenham Spa/creche sounds like a great idea. My eldest will be at nursery 3 days a week, but what I am really dreading is bedtimes. I was expecting to do what you suggest Mellors and just put baby in cot at 7pm so I can get on with storytime with older one. Hopefully as you say they'll learn to self settle soon enough!

Smiler, I am planning to start a thread for mums due in September, so hope you'll join in once it's up and we can all support each other/share experiences/commiserate/meet for coffees etc.

[Fuschia]

Crystal Palace one o'clock club is a lovely place, not free but really easy to park and a safe place for a toddler to run about...

[ladywotlunches]

Smiler and Sanity girl - I'm also expecting no 2 in September, with no 1 turning 4 next week.

Lets make a plan to meet up - perhaps for more relaxed coffees pre-birth when we're on maternity leave too???

As to the 2 children thing - I'm just praying that it 'like riding a bike' and the 2nd one seems so much easier because a) we don't have as much time to worry and b) we've done it all before :))

[Fuschia]

Can I join in?

No 4 will arrive in November when our twins will be approx 2 3/4.... (and my older one is 7 so I never had to manage a toddler and newborn)

[Mellors]

Bedtime - this is what I used to do.

I stuck them both in the bath together at 6ish. Make sure you take everything in for getting baby & toddler ready for bed (nappies/sleepsuit/sleeping bag etc) & bouncy chair/playmat. Let baby splash about, then get it out and get it dresssed & ready for bed (in the bathroom). Feed baby whilst sitting on loo supervising toddler (my breastfeeds used to take an age, but toddler was happy to play in bath for ages, so worked well). Once feed is finished lie baby in bouncy chair/on playmat whilst you get toddler out/dressed.

Stick (hopefully sleepy) fed clean baby in cot, shut door and do a runner.

Take toddler to bedroom, quick story lights out etc. Ignore baby if possible (if it refuses to sleep!).

Shut toddlers door and run back to baby if need be (mine had often given up the fight at this point and conked out).

Go downstairs, open wine, drink large glass, have a cry, ignore mess, watch telly. Thump huband who comes home and asks whats for dinner. Try not to think about how on earth you are going to do it all again tomorrow and what your life has become. Fall asleep on sofa still covered in milk/yoghurt/poo. Wake up one day at about the 1 year point and realise you have survived ;-)

[Sanne Panne]

Sounds like a great bath-bedtime ritual Mellors! My toddler also happily plays in the bath for 30 minutes or longer if we let her so I think I'll do the same when baby 2 arrives in June. Sucks we have such a small bathroom but it'll work!

[ryedalema]

Wonderful post Mellors - that's about the same for me. Cept I haven't bothered with a cot for our youngest. We have those Ikea bunk beds and after an A&E trip with our eldest (hello Buggie!) when she mistook the upper bunk for a diving board, have turned the bunks upside down so eldest d has a normal level bed and our baby sleeps on a mattress next to her on the floor. Then I can nip in to see her during the night if she needs me and co-sleep/feed if it's needed.

Our baby seems to have slipped into the routine of our eldest, not particularly by design but just because that's what we were doing. Makes me think I totally over-fussed with eldest d.

Oh well!

[Mellors]

I also forgot the part where you laugh hysterically if the husband is ever ridiculous enough to suggest you ever have sex again.....

[ryedalema]

Ah yes - and Smiler it sounds like you will have 2 girls, right? Beware of the hand-me-downs. The baby won't care (obv.) but your eldest daughter may go 'but that's mine!!!' (In a very whiny voice).

At least that's the daily moan/whinge in our house.

[gwod]

Number two is easy peasy - I wondered why I'd made so much fuss about number one! I remember looking at my second daughter and thinking "...babies sleep alot" I felt I had to be in a constant state of readiness for my first, always listening out for a whimper - Second and subsequent babies needs are not always met instantly, and I think they (and the parents) are calmer and happier for it.

Now I have four children and often mothers of one child comment on what hard work it must be and how they can barely cope with one, but I always tell them, and truly beleive, that 1 child is by far the hardest work, 2 children is less hard, and having 3 or 4 doesnt feel like any more trouble either.

What exciting times are ahead for you all - I envy you your "due in September club" maybe I could come along as an alumni....!!!

[sanity girl]

This is such a great thread! Mellor your post made me laugh a lot. At least I won't have partner coming home and asking what's for dinner as he will be working evenings...and if it turns out that he's not, then he will be making dinner, that's for sure!

Off to start the September club thread now - Mellor and Gwod, can we have you as "guests"?

[Smiler]

Thanks v.much ladies for the tips. Classic, Mellor! Had not even STARTED to worry about sustaining a relationship with Mr Smiler!

Would love to be in the September club, though soon after that will be leaving East Dulwich (sob) to live in Surrey (wail), so will have to participate virtually, am not about to stop using the forum though.

Oh, the wine, can't wait. If was a 1950s housewife, think would end up like Julianne Moore in "The Hours" - fab book / film, but perhaps a bit bleak for those of us in the September club at this time.

I don't drive at the moment, passed my test years ago but have never driven since, thinking some refresher lessons would be a good way of expanding the options for outings.

Am in awe of those of you with four kids, wow. Definitely welcome as (expert) guests!

[Fuschia]

Could it not start of as an "Autumn babies" thread and split if necessary later on if there are enough to be divided up by month?

[sanity girl]

One thing that occurred to me about bath time - my daughter likes her bath fairly hot - presumably that's no good for new baby so wondering how I'll get around that - maybe do baby in baby bath on floor while my daughter has her usual bath?

[gwod]

She'll really want the new baby to be in the bath with her, so I'm sure she'll agree to slightly cooler temperature, and then you can top it up with hot and bubbles to make a big girl's bath afterwards which she can enjoy while you sort the wee one out.

[Fuschia]

I think babies are quite robust. Our twins bathed with me form the start, and I kept the water at a comfortable temperature for me.

[happydulwich]

Firstly congratulations. I have a nine month old and a 4 year old and there is not enough hours in the day! Agree with the girls sharing the bath (maybe put toddler in first and then when water is cooler the baby can jump in). My girls always have shared the bath. Their time for bonding or splashing me!

I made sure that I always read my older one her bedtime story and always made special time just for me and her. Also, sending some time just with daddy, i.e., watering the plants etc

She would also get the baby changer ready and also loved being dressed like her baby sister.

I would always be in the park, baby getting fresh air and the toddler getting rid of excess steam and finishing off with a relaxing walk home.

Good luck, but the months have rolled by so fast, just enjoy.

[charlottep]

Great thread - the advice is very relevant to me as my number 2 is almost 4 weeks old. she still seems too little to go in the bath with her nutcase brother who has just turned two - although it would make life a lot easier if they bathed together.

Mellor/Gwod/Happydulwich/Rydalema - did you do joint baths right from the newborn phase or did you wait a few weeks until baby 2 was a little more robust?? Also, from when did you settle number 2 in their room following bath time? I still have number 2 downstairs with us after her evening bath and my husband and i find ourselves sitting in the dark and whispering to eachother otherwise she gets disturbed and we wake her!! Not sure whether it's still too early to settle her at 7ish upstairs in our room before we go to bed.

Smiler - sorry, i don't mean to hijack your thread with my questions. I should just add in answer to your original post, i read the other thread about the first three months with a tear in my eye. I found my first three months with number 1 very difficult and had a huge amount of anxiety. The first few weeks with number 2 has been, in comparison, absolutely lovely. It may be early days for us but the transition to 2 has been very smooth. As my husband said a couple of nights ago, what's left to lose? We gave up practically every shred of our independent lives for number 1!

[gwod]

Yes I think we did bath sharing from the outset - though I must say I dont tend to bath tiny babies every day as they dont seem to get so dirty as a toddler. I found I never again needed a plasticy prop-your-baby-up thingy ever again once ther was an older sister to cradle the baby in the bath while I washed them....maybe its different with boys though - Ive only got 4 girls.....!

As for settling upstairs on their own, I did all sorts of different routines for different children, usually a compromise between something to suit the family dynamic and the requirements of the baby (and the capacity of our house - kids sharing rooms etc etc). It all seemed to muddle along fine. As Ive said, the more kids there are, the more flexible everyone becomes (even the previously unbending 2 year olds!)

[Smiler]

Not hijacking at all charlottep, the nitty-gritty of bathtime / bedtime is all v.useful! Also agree that the loss of independence / ability to do anything other than babycare / down-time was one of the hardest things about no.1.

[Fuschia]

Any tips adding into the mix (one 7 yo 2x 2 yos) a newborn? Gulp!!

[katgod]

second one just fits in. Keep nursery going if you can-switch to mornings only if cost an issue. I kept doing shorter hours at our 'full day care' type nursery til baby was 4 months, then switched to a cheaper, term time only morning session nurery. Now at home with new number 3, son at school and 3.5 year old at nurery 3 mornings-she loves it, saves her watching TV. Be realistic, they will watch more TV than pre baby. agree that you just don't panic so much or worry about being perfect. Sometimes the baby has to cry in cot for a few minutes as toddler needs feeding. Is easier if you plan to just carry on with Monkey Music/swimming/whatever it is you do day to day with toddler as it gives you structure. That 'I can't leave the house' thing is not an option if you want your toddler to carry on with his/her life, you just DO get out. Even less of an option once have school age child. What is important changes. My new baby often does school run still in her pyjamas and in her sleeping bag. Never would have done that with first, but the most important thing is that number one gets to school on time.

Not saying it's easy, just that you will have learned from your mistakes, feel more confident, and realise that they ae robust. Good luck.

[gwod]

A big bath!