Knowledge......ignorance is bliss?

[let-them-eat-cake]

I'm a little worried about posting this....I feel it may upset people and that is truly NOT my intention.

I've only just joined the forum....I'm not even back in East Dulwich!....a friend who uses Brixton chat pointed me in this direction so.....

I've said in another thread that everyone seems very well informed..impressively so at times.....but I do wonder if perhaps a little knowledge is a bad thing?

There's a lot of discussion about giving birth at Kings, often discussing how awful it is and how the staff aren't that good.

I had my first baby at Kings, at 36 +5 weeks, a ventouse........not my ideal admittedly, but I have no complaints AT ALL.

All the staff were fabulous.....midwives, health care assistants and doctors.

They listened to my opinion and I trusted them......no group practice in those days, so 'just' hospital midwives!

They were brilliant.

I'm sure there are loads of positive threads, but as I've read through, I've come across so much negativity.

I have friends in East Dulwich who read stuff on this forum to get help, advice and support.....and they say it does help them considerably.....but

and this is where I'm gritting my teeth for the flurry of replies...

Some people may be misled by what they read here, may have expectations about their pregnancy, labour, delivery and post delivery time which can never be met.

They may read something here and think that it is totally accurate and true for everyone when the opposite is true.

I don't want to be more specific at the moment, but would be interested in any thoughts.

Off to do some baking now.........

[Fuschia]

This is the internet after all... you need to use your common sense, whatever you read. But I do think having others share their real life experiences can only help to inform.

What you make of it when there are so many differing opinions is up to you, really.

[littleEDfamily]

The forum can be a double edged sword. It can be completely addictive, which can't be a good thing, but it is just such a wonderful resource (for info and stuff if you need it), that it doesn't make sense to completely stay away.

On balance (except for feeling quite irritated by a couple of posts over the years - I am sure I have irritated others too), the forum has made me feel so supported as a parent, from knowing what groups are on, to getting personal advice, to just being a place to let off steam from time to time. And I have learnt a lot as, you are right, there are some very informed people on here.

It's definitely not as dangerous as Google! You just need to self censor from time to time.

[Saila]

I echo the past two posts. Plus i think it's often at least two opinions being put forward and i dont' feel like it's ever overly one way or the other.. and if it is, someone always steps in to rebalance it

Everyone knows it's an individual's opinion. If a random person told you something in a pub one night you wouldn't rush out the next day and follow them word for word? A good debate is fun afer all

So now that you're reassured... loosen up a bit and tell us what's really on your mind? details please

:))

[Fuschia]

I think if you are a regular reader you will have come across tales of beautiful births, traumatic births, and a lot of the stuff "noone ever tells you"!

A whole rainbow of experiences and opinions and generally speaking I think most people are pretty tolerant of other opinions which makes for some quite openminded discussions.

[let-them-eat-cake]

I'm just obsessing about something I've read in another post which I know is misleading.

But it's a really sensitive subject and I'm sure me basically saying that it's not quite right will upset the person....and many others....enormously.

Maybe I just have to bite my tongue....BUT it's upsetting me and the more I think about it, the more upset I am at the thought of someone reading about it and thinking that it will happen for them too....and it can't!

Or someone may read it who has had this thing happen and will want to know why her experience didn't work out in the same way!!

Arrrrrrrrrgh.

*deep breaths*

........more baking.........

[Saila]

you can pm the person perhaps? encourage them to retract the statement?

if you feel so strongly about it then they wont be upset by your pm

[Fuschia]

let-them-eat-cake Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm just obsessing about something I've read in

> another post which I know is misleading.

>

> But it's a really sensitive subject and I'm sure

> me basically saying that it's not quite right will

> upset the person....and many

> others....enormously.

You could probably have found a tactful way to put an opposing viewpoint. That might be a litle harder to do, following on from starting this thread.

If someone has posted factually correct info, someone will no doubt post some useful and more accurate lonks and info.

But remember, you don't have a monopoly on the truth. Tou can't really pick apart someone's explanation of a personal experience and declare it's "misleading" Experience is a very personal thing, and how we interpret what has happened to us.

[let-them-eat-cake]

Thanks Saila, but she will be upset.....it's rather personal and I think it's something 'everyone' on here knows about.

I don't want to upset her, really, truly, but I think she would be horrified if I try and explain what I mean.......

But I hate the thought of someone looking on here and having false hope or looking at something in their past and wishing that they could've had a better outcome.

i don't know.....maybe i should just try and ignore it.

[let-them-eat-cake]

Fuschia....of course experience is personal.

But what if someone's interpretation is wrong?

anyway......tea now I think.

[Saila]

if it's serious then you should perhaps ask admin to remove the post

[snowboarder]

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You could probably have found a tactful way to

> put an opposing viewpoint. That might be a litle

> harder to do, following on from starting this

> thread.

Quite!! V strange to start a thread like this and drop heavy hints...I think I may have a vague idea what you are referring to l-t-e-c, but could be wrong - seriously I think now you might have to come out with it rather than all this dancing around?!?

[The Nappy Lady]

Hmmm L-T-E-C if your issue is with one specific post/comment I think you have to address it with the OP, or the Family Room Moderator. I'm not sure I see the point of this thread.

If it's a more general issue with the forum then fair enough, but I think mostly we get very balanced comments with some very differing views and experiences.

I understand it may be tricky if it is a sensitive subject, so maybe you should PM the FRM and let him/her decide how, or indeed whether action needs to be taken?

I have a feeling I may know to what you are referring and if I'm right (may not be) I think whilst technically wrong the meaning is understood -though I take your point that it may mislead someone at some point if read in haste. If it's an old thread it could just be hidden so it would never be found again.

Molly

[ryedalema]

I'm not quite sure what to make of this thread. Whilst LTEC has genuine concerns about the factuality of a posting and is of course entitled to post whatever he/she wants herself, I feel this heavy hinting without actually coming out with it is making people feel a bit paranoid about what they've written.

Or maybe it's just me in my slightly sleep deprived, chocolate withdrawal symptomatic state.

Sorry LTEC - we all I'm sure try and post the facts as we see them, or based on our own experiences. Please don't be upset if we're not gospel.

How many people I wonder accept Wikipedia as fact? Just a musing.

[littleEDfamily]

Wikipedia is not fact?

[Saila]

If it was my post ltec i really wouldn't be upset at all if you said you had a problem with it?

All i did was copy and paste from wikipedia who got the stats from WomanStats.org

Not sure what the issue is there.... agree - after reading that i'm definitely paranoid

[Smiler]

Eh?

[curlykaren]

is let-them-eat-cake the former pradanic? I'm confused:-S:-S

[Belle]

oh dear - am def now thinking, 'what have i said?!' . Agree with others ltec - why not have a word wit FRM as they are v fair and good at handling this kind of thing, think might be better than approaching the forumite in first instance if it's a particularly sensitive issue. I can think of a few times where people have questioned other people (perhaps even on the very issue you refer to, who knows) and whilst of course there will occasionally be a nerve hit, people to get that if they put stuff out there, others may challenge it. I think (hope) so anyway. Of course if it's very personal experience then that can be tricky, so def worth a message to FRM if in doubt. If it's just the one incident you're worried about then don't think you need to worry more generally about the forum - funnily enough people have sometimes said the opposite: that people are too willing to post negative stories of births etc (which is another thread!).

[sillywoman]

Come on LTEC, it's really not good forum etiquette to post such vague allusions to someone else's post that bothers you so greatly. Have the courage of your convictions and talk specifics. And be sure that there will always be someone out there who'll agree with you (as well as some who don't). Anyway, please be up front about which post has upset you as now we're all wondering if it's one of ours.

[let-them-eat-cake]

After a hard night baking for my daughter's school (second wave of help for Haiti, called, would you believe, 'Cakey for Haiti'), I logged in to see what a mess I've made of trying to discuss my worries.

I feel like a bit of an idiot (obviously one with shocking social skills who will probably now be shunned.....)

I don't understand most of the acronyms that the Nappy lady used and I don't get the wikipedia bit either....and I don't know who pradanic is.

But I did a search and found her.....

So, yup, I'll just spit it out...sorry if everyone's been worrying about their posts and yes, I should've sent a pm to the person, but now I'll have to come out of the closet with it.

I think pradanic (who I guess I'll be joining in the EDF blacklist??) was talking about the same thing.

And it's interesting that a couple of people think they know what I meant.

Linzkg's story sounds awful....one of those labour/delivery stories that makes you thank god for your own experiences.....but her baby wasn't a stillbirth. Thank goodness.

A still birth and a baby who can be resuscitated are mutually exclusive.

Her baby was obviously born in an awful condition (I think 'a flat baby') and was resuscitated....it sounds like the midwives/ambulance staff did a fantastic job.

I won't give you a load of stillbirth/stillborn references....no point, you can all research things beautifully going on past performances.....google will give you a long list.

My worry is twofold.

- that someone who is pregnant will go into hospital and expect a miracle, that if their baby (god forbid) is stillborn, it'll be resuscitated. It won't.

- that someone reading this will have had a stillbirth in the past, will read this and wonder....'what about my baby? Why wasn't she resuscitated?' That's the one that's really preying on my mind.....so awful.

So my apologies.....I went about it clumsily, but with good intentions (yes, I know the good intentions quote too).

I just think that this forum is so full of information that we (you) all have a sort of duty to try and get it right - yes, to use our experiences and thoughts, but to take care too.

I'll shut up now.

No baking left to do either.

[snowboarder]

Linz has already clarified this on a previous thread some time ago...

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,315815,317883#msg-317883

You really were baking then?!?

[let-them-eat-cake]

The thread was way before my time (but I found some of it when I looked up pradanic this morning).....it doesn't change my point of view and doesn't resolve my concerns....but hey.

as for the baking....maybe (or eating the ones that didn't turn out so well!!)

[sillywoman]

OK LTEC, now you've clarified I can say I completely agree with you. I was going to raise exactly your points of concern with linzkg on the breech thread, but It's been raised in the past on another thread and felt if that hadn't changed her completely inaccurate way of referencing her birth then, it probably wouldn't do any good to raise it again now. Also, you can see from the link, that she/he got very defensive when challenged on her inaccurate terminology. Her baby obviously wasn't stillborn and I do think it's wrong and misleading and possibly offensive that she continue to refer to it as such. However, you can lead a horse to water etc.etc..

However I do think that when discussing scary and emotional issues such as this it really is very important to be as accurate as possible, especially when on a public forum. As you said, as users we have a responsibility to consider the impact of our words on others and to try and 'get it right'.

[Smiler]

I remember the thread and disagree. People shouldn't have to self-sensor and use specific, accurate language etc. when they are talking about their own personal experience. Can't always have in mind how myriad others in different situations might possibly react.

Also think we should allow for the fact that people posting about their births etc. are often experiencing stress / exhaustion / shock of the birth / hormones etc. etc.! Lots of us have probably posted stuff that, on reflection, we might not have or phrased differently.

Re."negativity" on this forum about childbirth / Kings, it will probably always be the case that those with a bad experience are more inclined to post. Some people will want to hear others' stories, good and bad, while others will get stressed out by it and should probably avoid the relevant threads (though not always obvious from thread titles which contain lots of detail / horror and which are innocuous!)