Fracas on the number 40 this morning.

[Doodles]

I was on the 40 bus this morning. While we travelled down Lordship Lane, someone was expressing his unhappiness with the driver. Seems the driver sped off from the stop sending the passenger?s small child flying.

Anyway ? by the time we reached East D station, the bus had stopped, voices were raised and, eventually, windows smashed and police called.

Think I?ll start cycling again.

But seriously, it worries me that drivers are so stressed / aggressive when they have people?s well-being in their hands.

[Annasfield]

I saw that and wondered what it was all about. Did the passenger smash the window?

[Brendan]

Gets to me too. Sometimes it?s all I can do to hang on and not fall over the way they drive. I?m young and fit. What about elderly folk or someone on crutches?

[Annasfield]

Brendan Wrote:

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> Gets to me too. Sometimes it?s all I can do to

> hang on and not fall over the way they drive. I?m

> young and fit. What about elderly folk or someone

> on crutches?

Yes myself and my housemate often laugh at our attempts not to pole and lap dance whilst trying to stay up-right on the bus. I reckon the drivers do it on purpose.

In all seriousness though, I'm surprised that people haven't been hurt.

[Doodles]

No. Think it was the driver. From what I heard he lost his rag because the passenger said he was going to complain. Not going to say anything with certainty because I suspect this may end up in court.

[SeanMacGabhann]

And I consider the 40 one of the more pleasant buses to take as well...

The quality of drivers does vary enormously - both in capability and personality. And I too have wondered how the some people cope with the stops-and-starts.

Then again even the best drivers have to have an amount of aggressive attitude to keep the bus moving in London traffic

It doesn't really matter how upset you get with a driver they can't really respon - and if someone is going to go as far as start smashing windows.. well, they have kind of lost the moral high ground no?

[Doodles]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And I consider the 40 one of the more pleasant

> buses to take as well...

>

> The quality of drivers does vary enormously - both

> in capability and personality. And I too have

> wondered how the some people cope with the

> stops-and-starts.

> Then again even the best drivers have to have an

> amount of aggressive attitude to keep the bus

> moving in London traffic

>

> It doesn't really matter how upset you get with a

> driver they can't really respon - and if someone

> is going to go as far as start smashing windows..

> well, they have kind of lost the moral high ground

> no?

No. Think it was the driver. From what I heard he lost his rag because the passenger said he was going to complain. Not going to say anything with certainty because I suspect this may end up in court.

Except, it was, I think, the driver who smashed the window. It was certainly the driver who was being aggressive. And I don?t think aggression, whatever the cause, and driving a bus full of people is a good combination.

[Brendan]

If my child, wife, parent etc. got hurt because the bus driver was driving like a cunt I would probably be smashing windows too.

[Doodles]

Brendan Wrote:

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> If my child, wife, parent etc. got hurt because

> the bus driver was driving like a @#$%& I would

> probably be smashing windows too.

Blimmey. The customer was being calm. It was the @#$%& driver!

[Doodles]

(I will calm down now and not smash any windows. ):-$

[ClareC]

I have pretty good balance and can think of many occasions when I have been thrown off balance and swung round the pole on the bus - not always after a couple of drinks either! Def think it may be a point scoring game the drivers play! I have also witnessed erratic pulling out from stops without checking for cyclists! One guy cycling up Lordship Lane very nearly was run off his bike, he shouted shook his fist and gave chase! Actually, I think that goes for cars too, I have noticed when driving that indicator on is immediately followed by bus pulling out whether you are there or not! Desoite the eratic driving, I generally find the bus drivers a nice enough bunch!

[Brendan]

Apologies, for the second time this morning, for my outbursts. It is one of those days. (6)

[Elfy]

I don't excuse this driver for a second...or those that drive like absolute maniacs, but I do think being a bus driver must be an incredibly stressful job with not much pay (compare it to a tube driver). They have to deal with the general public, who are not always paragons of virtue, and other drivers, who can be selfish and dangerous. And sometimes cyclists are their own worse enemy...I've seen cyclists overtake other cyclists, causing the bus to screech to a halt (and then people fall over in the bus). It's not always the bus driver's fault! (Although in this case, he sounds like a nutter!)

[Elfy]

Sorry - that should read...

I've seen cyclists overtake other cyclist without looking, and therefore seeing that there's a bus coming up behind them...causing the bus to screech to a halt.

[Doodles]

The bus shouldn't be that close...

[LostThePlot]

ClareC Wrote:

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> Def think it may be a point scoring game the drivers play!

I wrote a piece on the last Routemater journey in London and as part of that interviewed a guy who was into his busses (He owned a couple)

He told me a story about a chap who was well know in one depot. He use to say to his conductors "You get them on, I'll sit them down"

As for busses simply pulling out. Yes, it is in the highway code now to allow busses to pull out, Section 198

HOWEVER there does seem to be total disregard for Section 112 anyone overtaking them, and committed to the manoeuvre. Just pulling out when they want, causing you all sorts of problems.

Of course come up with any comments and you just get a mouthful or a load of attitude.

I hold all my licences, so understand about driving large vehicles in crowded streets, and it's not easy. But I do wonder if sometimes they are their own worst enemy.

[Brendan]

I agree that it must be a really tough job. That is still no excuse for drivers driving badly. If someone is prone to being a dick* or driving like a dick** then they shouldn't be hired.

They should bloody well pay them decently too. That will have way more effect than any number of these touchy feely training course and life management skills bollocks things that seem to proliferate in the public sector to pep up staff moral.

*Technical term that.

**Another one.

[Doodles]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree that it must be a really tough job. That

> is still no excuse for drivers driving badly. If

> someone is prone to being a dick* or driving like

> a dick** then they shouldn't be hired.

>

> They should bloody well pay them decently too.

> That will have way more effect than any number of

> these touchy feely training course and life

> management skills bollocks things that seem to

> proliferate in the public sector to pep up staff

> moral.

>

> *Technical term that.

> **Another one.

Yup. Agree with all of that.

[mockney piers]

I've generally found the 176 to be the worst.

It must be down to training because they're consistently bad.

It's run by Arriva London fwiw.

37, 40 and 484 are London Central

185 East Thames Buses (publicly owned)

P13 travel London

Just should anyone get the urge to complain, you understand.

[Elfy]

The incident I was referring to was on Waterloo Bridge. There was a slowish cyclist in the cycle lane and a faster one behind. The bus was in the 'traffic' lane going at a normal speed. The faster cyclist just moved into the traffic lane in front of the bus without looking...he was giving the cycle lane room. There is not enough room to give overtakers on the cycle lane room. I don't think the bus driver was at fault. The cyclist should have looked, just as a car overtaking in 2-lane traffic should look to see if there's anyone in the outside lane before overtaking. Some cyclists are not whiter than white...(and I'm not even talking about going through red lights and almost hitting pedestrians who are crossing)...but that's another topic. I'm not a driver in London, only use public transport and walk. I've almost been hit by cyclists more times than cars and buses (thank God!)

[susyp]

the 63 and 363 routes are pretty bad too. i wait for it to stop before going down the stairs to get off to avoid breaking my neck, which i know annoys the drivers - as they frequently shut the doors before i've got down the bottom of them! they are complete maniacs i can;t believe they have any training at all.

[JoeChuff]

> 37, 40 and 484 are London Central

> 185 East Thames Buses (publicly owned)

> P13 travel London

funny we were having a discussion in the lounge yesterday re: public vs private provision of services - i was anti the privatisation lot but i have always wondered why the 185 invariably smells of sick!

[James]

I have seen the attitude and professionalism of bus drivers deteriorate over the years. It seems like one of those jobs nobody really wants to do any more. So they are left with the dregs of society - halfwits who are otherwise unemployable, with terrible social skills.

As for their driving, I am often amazed at how aggressive and inconsiderate they are. When I was a child a bus crash was a rare occurrence - now they seem to happen with alarming frequency. And no wonder when the drivers barge out without indicating, ignore red lights and generally drive with no consideration towards their passengers or other road users.

[Elfy]

I agree with you James to a certain extent...but they are probably working to 'targets' too. They have to be somewhere at a certain time. Or somewhere 'not' to be. One of the most frustrating journeys I've ever had was a driver who went so slowly the cyclists were overtaking him...all the way from the Strand to East Dulwich. It took forever.

It's sh*t job with matching sh*t pay. It doesn't cost anything to be polite...but I personally would hate to have their job. It would not make me agressive but it would make me miserable! Someone's got to do it, otherwise we would all be moaning about the lack of buses.

[kingtubby]

My problem with buses that are bendy is that a) for cyclists they are a real challenge and you know the driver cannot see you as he swings round a corner and b) No one pays. I took the bus from the Elephant to Barry road (a 12?) and I counted 30 people get on & off, and only 2 or 3 put their oyster card on the machine (they get on in the middle). This policy works in Europe eg Germany, Holland where people are a bit more honest, fares cheaper etc but not in London. Hence if I was the bus driver I would not have challenged these people as you could end up getting stabbed over ?1. Too much stress for the driver to take.