Breech birth - would you be up for it?

[Fuschia]

buggie Wrote:

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> Fuschia - the breach in confidentiality by your

> midwife is very concerning to me... especially as

> she specifically looked up the records rather than

> knowing as she was involved. Also it is a very

> black and white view - she didn't add whether

> there had possibly been further problems/issues

> with the pregnancies that could have caused this

> (and could be why they'd needed closer

> monitoring/medical care).

>

> Think it's very unfair to suggest that twin II

> died in both cases just because they had a more

> medical route/didn't have their own midwives with

> them.

I'm guessing this was via the register of births, as she was only there as a friend to the woman she was with, she wouldn't have had access to any hopsital records. But I guess it is possible to find this info out via publicly available info, else she wouldn't have known. Or maybe her "client" who may have been in hospital for a few days afetr the birth, realised what had happened because she had contact with the other poor mothers? I didn't ask for any details, I really didn't want to think about it at all, TBH!! And of course, who knows what went wrong? I did take the point, though, that the hospitals do have valid reasons for worrying about twin II... I know a few twin mums from online fora who have problems with twin II (cerebral palsy, in two cases) due to problems with the birth.

But I certainly have talked a lot to other twins mums about their births, ranging from homebirths which were great to a homebirth that went horribly wrong, to women who opted for a CS to those who didn't want one, to those who had a vaginal birth with a lot of intervention, to those who didn't... point I'm trying to make, really, is opting for a CS or a very medicalised birth isn't necessarily "safer" and there are "high risk" births, like twin births, where all you can do is to talk to those who have expertise, and try to judge where on the scale your own case falls, and then decide what you want to do... My own consultant wa shappy for em to declien continuis monitoring unless a problem began to manifest.. while the consultant on duty the night I gave birth had quite a different view and was trying to convince me to have it. But what i wanted more than anything was to be mobile and able to choose how to give birth, and I was confident a good midwife with a listening device would be able to spot if something was going wrong. The (hospital) midwives were with that as well.

Even midwives and drs don't always agree.. and the drs are very risk averse because once they are involved things are often going wrong... but it doesn't mean every woman should have a CS just to be "safe" or even have an epidural and continuous monitoring etc etc... it's not justtified by the risk in your average birth.

[linzkg]

A C section is major surgery - there are risks involved with that too - now you also get onto the subject of being told you take longer to heal and you may not be able to pick up your baby for a few weeks bla bla so that plays on your mind too .. not to mention I have a phobia of hospitals and unfortunately it is very bad so the thought of an edidural .. and I react to aesthetic so couldn't be knocked out either .. all of this would have definitaly had an impack on stress on my baby too .. so all the time you're looking for the safest way for both of you.

Anyway, until you're put in that situation where you have to make such a major decision - added pressures of having a baby naturally or not you don't know what its like - and just once more the professionals certainly don't have it in black and white for you - its one of the most important decisions in your life yet its not a simple yes no answer - its completely frustrating and upsetting - so your simple 'just don't do it' answer isn't very helpful. (sorry but true!) when you've got professionals pulling you in a tug of war about what's the right/wrong thing to do and then you've got parents and friends etc - if only it was as simple as what you're saying. sorry but I'm very pationate about this.

And with regards to living without regrets and the what ifs - I still look at what could have been done differently to have my son born healthy and well and not end up on life support and I honestly feel that having him at home somehow saved him (in a strange way!) as I was in complete control the entire 16 hours of my fully established labour and did everything the midwives told me to and he wasn't in trouble until the very end - I just think being in hospital would have freaked me out a lot earlier in the labour and stressed him out too and it would have ended very badly.

I think men are becoming more and more ok with the subject and I know we had many ocnversations with friends, both male and female when we were pregnant and the boys definitely had some good pointers and questions etc so they are curious. my hubby research with me all our opinions - its funny - his number one was me and my number one was the baby!

I agree with the above posts too though - its such an individual decision - and we're very lucky to have a forum like this where we can share experiences (both good and bad) and give opinions (in most cases unbiased and thoughtful ones)

ps, ladies giving birth in bushes still happens all over the world - sorry that they don't all live in a first world country like you obviously!

[Saila]

.

[MichelleT]

I logged on last night to see if there was any discussion on breech as my baby is bum down at 37 weeks and was a bit surprised by some of the posts on this thread. Of course if you don't want to have a natural birth with a breech baby that's up to you but the evidence suggesting that c-section is automatically safer for the baby has been widely questioned. My midwife gave me the King's leaflet which sets out clearly the benefits and risks and explains that vaginal birth is still a safe option for many women, and not necessarily more painful or difficult than a head down birth; 50% of breech babies are still delivered vaginally, active birth is encouraged and forceps etc are no longer routinely used.

[Fuschia]

MichelleT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I logged on last night to see if there was any

> discussion on breech as my baby is bum down at 37

> weeks and was a bit surprised by some of the posts

> on this thread. Of course if you don't want to

> have a natural birth with a breech baby that's up

> to you but the evidence suggesting that c-section

> is automatically safer for the baby has been

> widely questioned. My midwife gave me the King's

> leaflet which sets out clearly the benefits and

> risks and explains that vaginal birth is still a

> safe option for many women, and not necessarily

> more painful or difficult than a head down birth;

> 50% of breech babies are still delivered

> vaginally, active birth is encouraged and forceps

> etc are no longer routinely used.

I think the nature of this discussion is very affected by people's personal experiences... those who have had a difficult birth where retrospectively they would have preferred a C section vs those who have had a natural birth or intervention they feel was unwarranted... then you add in the experiences of friends and friends of friends.. and everyone's acceptance of "risk" is different anyway!

Amongst twin mums I know, quite a few have delivered a breech twin II naturally without any problems.

Good luck with your decision! What advice have you been given? Have you seen a consultant? x

[gwod]

An excellent point made by Fuschia, in some instances first hand stories are more confusing that more general stats. I think that often when we are encouraged to make a birth plan, we are not reminded to maintain a degree of flexibility about our choices - labours, our expectations and our decisions about how to manage them can all be quite changeable, Perhaps they key is to be with a midwife who knows that you are well researched and able to make informed decisions as the birth get neaere and progresses.

Best of luck MichelleT

(Incidentally, I really dislike the phrase "birth plan" as it leads women to beleive they have more control of the delivery than is sometimes possible, leading to guilt and disapointment when things don't go to plan - whole other thread maybe!)

Gwod (5 births, none of which went to plan!)

[MichelleT]

We're still trying to turn the stubborn baby with a mixture of acupuncture, homeopathy and handstands in the swimming pool, and seeing the consultant on Monday. If still breech, will try ECV; if that doesn't work then I'll have a 'trial of labour' and hope to give birth vaginally, unless the baby is a 'footling' breech or very large. I think I'm lucky in that one of the Oakwood midwives has worked in Kenya and delivered breech babies, was unfazed by the whole thing, and encouraged me to do a bit of research. The book 'Breech Babies' by Benna Waites (I think) gives a very balanced view of breech and its issues. Twenty years ago we wouldn't have been having this discussion - breech was perfectly normal.

Good point about flexibility in labour, Gwod, my NCT teacher suggested that we call it a birth 'idea' rather than plan.

Thanks for the good wishes!

[linzkg]

My ECV was successful - I had an incredible Lady doctor at Kings (she was an Indian lady if I'm not mistaken.)

My midwife at Brierley was Swiss and she to was very experienced in breech deliveries and was supporting me 100% in my quest to have a natural breech birth .. BUT .. they, and Mike Marsh at Kings (with all the scanning equipment) failed to see that my baby was larger then average .. so thankfully the ECV was a success as had I tried the natural breech delivery I don't see how my son would have survived given his size .. but yes it is completely individual choice, and I'm just repeating myself from my initial post, and I completely agree with you that its totally normal etc. I hope it goes well for you.

[MichelleT]

went to Kings today; on palpating my bump they thought bub was still breech but the scan revealed that the baby had turned. So now I can relax and enjoy the last few weeks of pregnancy. Such a relied! Thanks again for the kind words,

Michelle x

[Knomester]

Great news Michelle!

[Smiler]

That's great news Michelle -hope bubs behaves and stays head-down now!

[linzkg]

wow - cool news!

[esme]

apparently acupuncture is worth a try for turning the baby - worth a shot as the medical way sounds pretty horrendous!

[jalapeno]

LEF, I thought you might find this article helpful weather you are considering a natural birth or a c-section to deliver your baby. Good luck with whichever path you choose.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/10448034.stm

[Katherine Berry]

Hi there,

I am new to the forums and just thought to pick up on Esme's comment about acupuncture...

There is another technique used in traditional chinese medicine called "moxibustion". It gets its name from the burning ('combustion') of a plant called moxa - or mugwort. It does not involved needles as the moxa is used to warm acupuncture points to stimulate a response similar to acupuncture.

Moxibustion is particually effective at around 34 weeks and the good news is that once you have been shown how to do it, you can do it yourself at home (or get your partner to do it).

Here is a link to research about this technique and if you scroll down you'll see a link to a brief video that shows how easy it is to do... http://www.acubalance.ca/turning-breech-babies

I should note that moxibustion is not recommended for the following conditions:

? Multiple pregnancies (twins etc).

? Oligohydramnios ? deficiency of amniotic fluid

? Uterine abnormality

? Hydrocephalic babies with abnormal accumulation of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in the brain

? APH - antepartum haemorrhagevaginal bleeding during pregnancy

? SRM - Spontaneous Rupture of Membranes (waters break by themselves)

? Placenta Previa- when the placenta is attached to the uterine wall close to or covering the cervix

? Polyhydramnios - abnormally large volume of amniotic fluid

Hope this info help?

Cheers

Kath

[Katherine Berry]

Hi there,

I am new to the forums and just thought to pick up on Esme's comment about acupuncture...

There is another technique used in traditional chinese medicine called "moxibustion". It gets its name from the burning ('combustion') of a plant called moxa - or mugwort. It does not involved needles as the moxa is used to warm acupuncture points to stimulate a response similar to acupuncture.

Moxibustion is particually effective at around 34 weeks and the good news is that once you have been shown how to do it, you can do it yourself at home (or get your partner to do it).

Here is a link to research about this technique and if you scroll down you'll see a link to a brief video that shows how easy it is to do... http://www.acubalance.ca/turning-breech-babies

I should note that moxibustion is not recommended for the following conditions:

? Multiple pregnancies (twins etc).

? Oligohydramnios ? deficiency of amniotic fluid

? Uterine abnormality

? Hydrocephalic babies with abnormal accumulation of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in the brain

? APH - antepartum haemorrhagevaginal bleeding during pregnancy

? SRM - Spontaneous Rupture of Membranes (waters break by themselves)

? Placenta Previa- when the placenta is attached to the uterine wall close to or covering the cervix

? Polyhydramnios - abnormally large volume of amniotic fluid

Hope this info help?

Cheers

Kath