Nunhead cemetery - odd experience/ghostly figure

[rendelharris]

P.S. For what Lousia saw actually to be a projection of a dead spirit from the past, the entire nature of our understanding of the physical universe would have to be completely rewritten, so in terms of remotely likely...

[jaywalker]

Well, I don't believe in Ghosts (except metaphorically as in the Hamlet sense of being 'haunted') and the gestalt basis of this kind of perception is well established: I regularly 'see' my black cat in the garden when one of my very dark red banana leaves is disturbed by the wind - in this case takes about 0.4 of a second to dispel (but mirages a little longer). Now that I have foxes the same effect is being triggered by my orange dahlias. Partly this is because we are now all so well educated so have learnt to put 2 and 2 together to make 1080: as Luria famously reported back from the illiterates he studied in Siberia - 'they have no illusions!'.

However, I am not sure that 'the entire nature of our understanding of the physical universe' is the right thing to put up against this. Was that the Newtonian understanding?! Even Newton had an entire 'other world' metaphysics of the most peculiar and indeed spiritualist kind. I thought we now lived in a very mysterious physical world indeed: with snow fields (Higgs Boson) super-strings (everything in the universe is connected) probable universe infinity (well I have to learn something from Horizon) and multi-verse (an infinite number of other universes). Remember it was within two generations that we thought the milky way was the limit of the universe... At the micro level physicists are often reported as saying NO ONE UNDERSTANDS quantum mechanics.

More obviously, serious philosophers have had a sense that our universe may well be a computer simulation MADE BY ANOTHER COMPUTER SIMULATION and so on for infinity. Makes a lot of sense the way VT is going.

And that would be a much better explanation of the Nun figure. If the simulation is just slightly 'out' then you get exactly these ghost effects: try the brilliant 'Assassin's Creed Syndicate' on PS4 (to get rid of the unintentional ghosts you have to upgrade to a specialised PC graphics card).

[rendelharris]

Well yes, if you're going to plunge into the realm of metaphysics and spirituality all is possible - all I meant was it would be a physical impossibility in terms of our current comprehension of energy and matter. Agreed that all manner of incomprehensible things are possible at quantum level, but an apparition in the shape of a nun would hardly fall into that bracket, would it?

[Huggers]

Louisa it would be interesting to revisit the grave your apparition was looking at to see who is buried there.

there is a Muslim section of the cemetery at the back of the chapel, on your left as you walk up the path that travels along the right side of the chapel if you are coming from the Linden Grove entrance. Is it possible you saw a lady in a hijab visiting the grave of a dead relative and your mind scrambled the information to put it into context?

[DulwichFox]

When I was a about 12 my mum was in the kitchen of our Peckham Flat..

My Nan , my mum's mother was in St. Giles Hospital to have an operation.

At 08.50 my mum heard her mother scream out. At 09.00 the washing line in the kitchen snapped without being touched

and fell down.

Later my mum went to the hospital where my Nan was sleeping. She asked the person in the next bed how was her mum.

The lady replied. "She's alright luv.. They gave her her pre-med at ten to nine and took her down at nine..

These things are curious and happen frequently.

DulwichFox

[jaywalker]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Well yes, if you're going to plunge into the realm

> of metaphysics and spirituality all is possible -

> all I meant was it would be a physical

> impossibility in terms of our current

> comprehension of energy and matter. Agreed that

> all manner of incomprehensible things are possible

> at quantum level, but an apparition in the shape

> of a nun would hardly fall into that bracket,

> would it?

but in my computer simulation of C19th London ghost effects (as opposed to ghosts) happen all the time and they were certainly not programmed to appear: and all that is happening there (by definition!) occurs at the binary level to produce 'macro' effects. OK that is only a metaphor. But why should there be a discontinuity from the micro to the macro in the simulation (one that is probably not digital) in which we may be constituted (who knows)? By the way this is hard-headed materialism not spiritualism: I no more believe in the reality of ghosts than you do. We only really have two choices if we treat the report of seeing a ghost seriously (which I do in this case): either the 'seeing' is constituted by brain activity as a mistaken gestalt, or it is 'real' as the artefact of a simulation. In the latter case, perhaps intentional by the machine doing the simulation, perhaps not.

as for the 'current comprehension of energy and matter' I am speechless.

[titch juicy]

I'm sure a few people on here have taken psychedelics before. Enough to understand that the mind is capable of a lot more than the everyday use it get's from us.

Surely it's more reasonable to assume that these incidences are just a part of the brain that we don't normally use opening for a brief moment?

[DulwichFox]

The Brain is a valve that controls the amount of information we take in..

A child trying to cross a road simply cannot cope with all the information needed that an adult naturally copes with.

Drugs like LSD simply opens that valve so even as an adult too much information comes in and simple tasks become really difficult.

Even crossing a road. Or in one case trying to buy a packet of Opal Fruits from Canterbury Staion kiosk.

Only people that have taken LSD would understand that.. :)

Was a long time ago.. 1969 ish

Foxy.

[rendelharris]

jaywalker Wrote:

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> as for the 'current comprehension of energy and

> matter' I am speechless.

Why?

[Robert Poste's Child]

It could be PTSD. Did you go to a convent, Louisa?

[peckham_ryu]

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

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> It could be PTSD. Did you go to a convent, Louisa?

I don't think a traumatised nun would resort to going round cemeteries, vanishing at monuments ;)

Anyway I have an idea to lay these ghosts to rest: there are normally outdoor screenings in the cemetery for the Free Film Festival in September. This would be an amazing venue for the Sing-along Sound of Music! We could fill the place with more nuns and nazis than you can shake a swatch of curtain fabric at!

Do you reckon the Friends of Nunhead would be up for it?

[JohnL]

If we all had a communal consciousness - everyone would pretend we don't :)

[Otta]

You'd be a bit miffed if having spent your life serving God as a nun, your spirit didn't make it to Heaven but instead had to wander around a cemetery.

[Robert Poste's Child]

peckham_ryu Wrote:

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> Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It could be PTSD. Did you go to a convent,

> Louisa?

>

> I don't think a traumatised nun would resort to

> going round cemeteries, vanishing at monuments ;)

I assumed the trauma was Louisa's, but fair enough.

[Louisa]

I've been back.

In answer to some questions posed. The image did not move no, but it was most certainly in a hunched over position, almost like praying or crying?

To address the point about the Muslim burial plot in Nunhead Cemetery, no it was not in that 'section', that is over the over side of the old derelict chapel. But I did take that on board initially hence my apprehension about posting here, I knew it may attract some sceptical responses.

I will contact 'friends of Nunhead cemetery' to see if any known folklore tales of apparitions have been reported.

On my return to the exact same spot I did not see this figure or anything resembling it, the area was most certainly just greenery, nothing resembling a black & white habit or nun's outfit or anything of that nature. However, I do take the earlier point that my eye could have been unconsciously elsewhere and the retina may have taken an imprint on my retina. But, having said that, I was not in any bright sunlight and my glare was fixed on the same area for a considerable enough amount of time to determine if it was about to vanish, and it was very clear to begin with but began fading in an almost smoke like glaze. It sent a shiver down my spine I'm not afraid to say.

Otta makes an interesting point. If it is a ghost and defies all known scientific logic on this topic, and the caveat that it was a dead nun, why is her soul not at rest? A committed godly soul rejected by the almighty? Why?

Louisa.

[rendelharris]

It's certainly very interesting, Louisa, and my comments on the possibility of an optical illusion were in no way meant to denigrate what a spine-tingling experience it must have been! Do keep us informed of any further research...

Best,

Rendel

[Grok]

A couple of years ago now, it was a very hot summers day and myself and a friend were walking in Nunhead Cemetery. I think I was on the same path Lou has described. As I was walking on the path all of a sudden there was a sharp drop in temperature to the point it felt cold. I stopped, looked and listened but could no longer hear the birds, and the light seemed to have faded but I did not see any figure. I walked back the way I had come and walked into warmth again, as if I was passing from one zone to another. I called to my friend and we walked along thd path together. The same drop in temperature happend again and my friend experienced it too. We quickly went back the way we came as although we were intrigued we were both spooked as something was not right, there was some kind of presence or something there that was not friendly. I have not been down that path since. I believe there are some unhappy souls in that cemetery that are not at rest.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Aren't souls and ghosts different things? (Hypothetically, anyway.) I believe the idea is that ghosts are imprints of moments of high emotion which keep repeating - an impression that remains on the energy of the place where the event happened - whereas the soul or spirit is the divine part of the person that continues after death.

[Grok]

I suppose I meant soul as in deep seated unhappiness to the core which generates these 'fluctuations' or disturbances be they ghostly or otherwise.

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

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> Aren't souls and ghosts different things?

> (Hypothetically, anyway.) I believe the idea is

> that ghosts are imprints of moments of high

> emotion which keep repeating - an impression that

> remains on the energy of the place where the event

> happened - whereas the soul or spirit is the

> divine part of the person that continues after

> death.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Apols, Grok, I was reacting to Louisa's post and crossed with yours.

[Louisa]

Grok the specific path I refer to does indeed have a cold patch, I've too come across this. In fact there are a few of them. Not sure if they can be explained my the shade of trees and micro fluctuation in temperature at designated spots. It is rather unsettling though, regardless of why it happens, and sometimes animal instinct can kick in and take over. It's happened more than once with me, but never involving a visual apparition.

It most certainly was unsettling rendelharris, and I am interested in all possible explanations so please fire them away- happy to have an answer on this. I have tried to do some Google research but I think friends of Nunhead are my best bet on this one.

Depending on religious belief, the soul is indeed the divine everlasting element of a human (or in some cases other animals too) life, and Hauntings are often reported when the divine spirit is unable to move into the next life or plain of existence (heaven if you like). Based on that narrative, I think this would have come under the ghost category, an imprint on time replaying itself like a broken record.

Louisa.