Cycling: issues/noticeboard

[henryb]

Annette Curtain Wrote:

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> I'm with Applespider pretty much.

>

> INMV 1st enforce the existing laws for cars &

> bikes. Do it in a way that sees infringements

> treated seriously.

>

> Why don't some cyclists stop at lights ?

>

> a.Because most are too lazy to stop/get going

> again.

>

> b.Because they don't reckon on getting caught.

>

> c. Well everyone else seems to get away with it

>

>

> Laa Laa La Dave-fingers-in-my-ears-R cant see

> there's a bike problem, maybe he works for BoJo

> See here for Dave's Uri Geller style answer

> bending:

>

Yes it is true some cyclists jump red lights. A TFL study showed that about 16% of cyclists jump red lights.

However DFT report showed that 58% car drives break speed limit on 30 mph roads.

As speeding is a contributing factor in 14% of fatal accidents and cyclist jumping red is a contributing factor in around 0% of fatal accidents - it is unsurprising people think that with limited resources focusing on dangerous drivers is the best approach.

The reason cyclists jump red lights is because stopping and starting takes effort and they think it is safe to proceed. Of all collisions with a bicycle, only in 2% is red light jumping a contributing factor - so it is a danger but a small one. The police do give out ticket to cylists for both jumping lights and cycling on the pavement - however they do not currently enforce 20 mph zones or ASZs.

[Annette Curtain]

I'm with you on the speed limit thing. I was caught doing 34 in Clapham many years ago, though luckily I got the offer of reprogramming at the police speed school thingy. It really opens your eyes and arrests your behind the wheel behaviour.

The hardest thing to enforce is mutual respect, because it has to be earned. Sadly there is a divide between some of both parties and within each group, though how to address that is difficult. Motorists keeping their speed in check and leaving bike boxes clear would help. As would well lit bikes and red light observing by cyclists.

I'm hopeful, but not holding my breath.

[DaveR]

"INMV 1st enforce the existing laws for cars & bikes. Do it in a way that sees infringements treated seriously"

Enforce all existing laws? All the time? And with equal seriousness, regardless of the infringement? What an excellent notion.

Meanwhile, back on Planet Reality, most people favour a risk-based approach to enforcement. Hence focussing on motor vehicles (which kill you if they hit you) rather than bikes (which don't). I simplify slightly, but (even) you get the point.

[Annette Curtain]

>Enforce all existing laws? All the time? And with equal seriousness, regardless of the infringement? What an excellent notion<

See Uri Geller is back again.

Tho see my post above your.

[DaveR]

I do read your posts. I just don't see much sense in them. You say there is a 'bike problem'. You talk about 'mutual respect'. You also have some weird thing going about Uri Geller which tbh I'm not even trying to understand.

I have said (and have always said, and believe me this subject has been done to death) that (i) it's a good idea for everybody to use the road sensibly and (ii) the overwhelming threat to anybody's safety out there is from motor vehicles, not bikes. There's no contradiction between the two. They make perfect sense. Except to you.

[uncleglen]

2 near misses over the weekend- I was waiting to turn right (luckily) so the car waiting to come out of the side road couldn't pull out because if she had she would have hit the cyclist coming from her right since she did not even look!

Coming up to a road junction to turn left because the right turn is one way. I know this road and always look both ways but the car in front of me just pulled out and a cyclist was coming the wrong way and had to swerve to avoid hitting the car. I always look both ways because a cyclist nearly ht me coming out of the road the wrong way! And not to mention the state of the road surface.....

[JohnL]

But its not for cyclists or motorists to interpret the law

henryb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Annette Curtain Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I'm with Applespider pretty much.

> >

> > INMV 1st enforce the existing laws for cars &

> > bikes. Do it in a way that sees infringements

> > treated seriously.

> >

> > Why don't some cyclists stop at lights ?

> >

> > a.Because most are too lazy to stop/get going

> > again.

> >

> > b.Because they don't reckon on getting caught.

> >

> > c. Well everyone else seems to get away with it

> >

> >

> > Laa Laa La Dave-fingers-in-my-ears-R cant see

> > there's a bike problem, maybe he works for BoJo

> > See here for Dave's Uri Geller style answer

> > bending:

> >

>

> Yes it is true some cyclists jump red lights. A

> TFL study showed that about 16% of cyclists jump

> red lights.

>

> However DFT report showed that 58% car drives

> break speed limit on 30 mph roads.

>

> As speeding is a contributing factor in 14% of

> fatal accidents and cyclist jumping red is a

> contributing factor in around 0% of fatal

> accidents - it is unsurprising people think that

> with limited resources focusing on dangerous

> drivers is the best approach.

>

> The reason cyclists jump red lights is because

> stopping and starting takes effort and they think

> it is safe to proceed. Of all collisions with a

> bicycle, only in 2% is red light jumping a

> contributing factor - so it is a danger but a

> small one. The police do give out ticket to

> cylists for both jumping lights and cycling on the

> pavement - however they do not currently enforce

> 20 mph zones or ASZs.

[henryb]

JohnL Wrote:

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> But its not for cyclists or motorists to interpret

> the law

Tell that to the 50%+ motorists who break the speed limit.

[LadyDeliah]

Isn't this a thread for cyclists to inform eachother about cycling issues?

For general banging the tired old drum of cyclists v motorists, there are loads of other threads to post on.

[EdithF]

Wondered if any you lovely cycling oriented folk might be interested in free places to a top cycle ride !

Herne Hill Velodrome Trust have some free places to the London Cycle Sportive, on the basis that each participant pledges to raise at least ?100 towards the continued improvement of the Herne Hill velodrome. In the last 3 years the Herne Hill Velodrome Trust has overseen the resurfacing of the existing track and the construction of a new junior track and the installation of flood lighting. The final phase involves the re-development of the Pavilion.

The London Cycle Sportive will take place on Sunday 30th June and the route takes in many important landmarks from London?s Olympic history including a unique finish on the 1948 Olympic Velodrome at Herne Hill. The ride will start in the picturesque Dulwich Park, just a stone?s throw away from the iconic finish at the Velodrome, and the route goes out to the stunning Surrey Hills taking in Box Hill as cycled on by Mark Cavendish and Lizzie Armitstead in the 2012 Olympics.

All cyclists will have the unique experience of cycling around the 1948 Olympic cycle track as part of their finish experience and will then be invited to stay and cheer on the other finishers whilst enjoying refreshments with family and other riders. With three routes available, there's a distance for everyone:

The Short route (50km approx) heads out to the North Downs offering the riders some stunning views over the Kent/Surrey countryside and Biggin Hill prior to looping back North to rejoin the outward route back to Herne Hill velodrome. Total climbing on this route is 455 metres and has a maximum elevation of 275 metres.

The Medium route (100km approx) This route gives a total height climbed of 812 metres and again has a maximum elevation of 275 metres. The route heads out to the North Downs offering the riders some stunning views over the Kent/Surrey countryside and Biggin Hill, then the lanes between Reigate and Dorking where it then takes on the 2012 Olympic climb at Box Hill.

The Long route (160km approx/100 miles) heads out to the North Downs offering the riders some stunning views over the Kent/Surrey countryside and Biggin Hill, then the lanes between Reigate and Dorking where the long ride continues in to the Surrey Countryside before continuing in a Northerly direction back up onto the North Downs to re join the medium route on the North Downs Way at Ranmore Common. This route climbs 1098 metres and also has a max elevation of 275 metres.

Sign up by going to the all new Herne Hill Velodrome Trust website: http://hhvt.org/support/fundraise/

For more information on the event please visit http://humanrace.co.uk/events/cycling/london-cycle-sportive

It?s the perfect way to raise money for the future of the historic Herne Hill Velodrome, so we?re asking people to raise ?100 in sponsorship in return for a place. All fundraising riders will get a free Friends Water Bottle. Raise ?150 and we?ll throw in a Friends Cap. Raise ?250 or more and you?ll get one of our highly prized Friends Jerseys.

[Applespider]

That's a great offer, Edith, and I'd love to do it. Unfortunately, I have tickets for Springsteen on 30 June and after disappointing my mother twice before when plans to see him fell through, I have to do that first.

Pity though - I do hope someone takes it up. It's a great experience and a great cause!

[Applespider]

Had to laugh tonight. I'm sitting at the lights at Stockwell in the right hand lane so I can make a right turn when the filter comes on. All the lights at the junction are red. Immediately behind me is a police van.

Cue - an idiot cyclist who comes up and decides to jump the light and cross the junction. The police van toots but he ignores him. Just then a second cyclist does the same. I turn to the police van and shrug.

The two policemen in the van nod back to acknowlege... and then turn on their sirens and lights and chase after the two RLJers to pull them over. Mwa ha ha! They looked very very sheepish when I passed them a few moments later. Let's hope it stops them doing it again... although I don't expect they're that bright, doing it with a police van alongside!

[Annette Curtain]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Enforce all existing laws? All the time? And with

> equal seriousness, regardless of the infringement?

> What an excellent notionAnnette Curtain Wrote:

------------------------------------------------------

> See Uri Geller is back again.

>

> Tho see my post above your.

I'll explain briefly, then you can take the megaphone out of your rear end.

I never wrote or implied the comment contained within the > Enforce all existing laws? All the time? And with equal seriousness, regardless of the infringement? What an excellent notion<

You even deride your own comment with "What an excellent notion"

Lastly, Uri Geller used to bend spoons out of shape, you take other peoples views or comments and do the same. Except Uri Geller was quite entertaining with it.

[AGW3]

Given that the average driving speed in London is around 12 miles an hour, a 20 mph speed limit probably will have very little effect in London. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-could-see-20mph-speed-limit-on-nearly-all-residential-streets-by-2020-8648655.html

[katanita]

Lambeth's Bike the Borough is on the 22nd June. Was very enjoyable last year http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/TransportStreets/WalkingCycling/BikeTheBorough.htm?sl=biketheborough

[northlondoner]

Annette Curtain Wrote:

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> DaveR Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > "Bad motorist-good cyclist la la la "

> >

> > Not so much this as "private motorist

> (especially

> > if alone in car) bad, anything else good"

> >

> > Which is a perfectly sensible transport policy

> for

> > the Mayor of London to adopt. Driving a car in

> > inner London when there is a viable alternative

> > means of transport is an inherently selfish and

> > anti-social act, and the punishment for it is

> > getting stuck in traffic and getting stung for

> > tickets. I have a car, I use it, I moan about

> > traffic and tickets, but deep down I know the

> > above to be true. And so do you.

>

> Oh dear Dave

>

> You've veered off as you do, then gone into a

> polarised rant vacuum

>

> Anyway, as I said "My beef is that cycling has

> become the holy cow for London" Even in the face

> of obvious/dangerous infringements, there's no

> crackdown, nothing. Like it would be an admission

> of failure.

>

> But the motorised vehicle users get penalised

> further, so the divide is drawn by those above who

> want policy over policing.

>

> I drive on my own nearly everyday in the city. I

> know, say a hail mary. Trouble is there's no way

> of hulking 1500 kilos of product around any other

> way.

>

> Though I do also carry my Brompton to scoot around

> once parked up for an hour, so I see both sides.

> Hand on heart, it's other cyclist that break the

> law the most consistently. Were it not the skill

> of experienced city drivers , then more wayward

> cyclists would be dead or injured.

>

> But who'd want to admit that ?

Nette. You are simply missing the point . DaveR knows - through force of superior perception - that every journey made by car in inner London is an act of sinful selfishness Furthermore this divine perception gives him the moral authority - nay OBLIGATION - to pronounce thus. By questioning these sacred Tablets you are questioning the whole idea of His omniscience .. and that of the Holy Order of Lycra. That is a dangerous course my friend.

[Odyssey]

Apparently we are the 10th friendliest cycling country in Europe http://road.cc/content/news/84883-uk-ranked-europes-10th-most-cycle-friendly-nation.

[Saturn 5]

Another hit and run, this time in Kensington. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-23-fighting-for-his-life-after-hitandrun-in-north-kensington-8680934.html. Wake up Boris!

[malumbu]

I was left for dead on Red Post Hill in 1998 after being clipped from behind and knocked 20mph into a stationary car. Dark, but very clear night. Car sped down Casino Avenue, a route that you would never do from that direction.

Five mins later after some passers by had picked me up, a guy in a red Merc CL E reg, with loads of gold asked me if I was alright and that he's seen the whole thing.

It dawned on me later that he was the culprit .

I pass a now rather shabby red Merc not far away and it makes me wonder.

Nice ending is that the staionary car that I hit, said don't bother about the dent and drove me home.

[AGW3]

I am curious as to whether you reported the incident to the Police.

[Saturn 5]

In the Guardian today: should the school run be banned? :http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/poll/2013/jul/03/should-driving-school-run-be-banned

[Applespider]

It was the school run that started me cycling to work... well, at least, trying to avoid getting stuck on a bus in school run traffic.

There was a commenter on there who made a reasonable point though. Why stop at kids - why not force all adults to park 1/2 mile from their work? Or charge for car parking at supermarkets with the furthest away bays being free (disabled bays excluded). I have a neighbour who gets in his car to go to the local Tesco Express for a pint of milk and the Sunday paper. It is 6 minutes away at a saunter - and the lack of right turn from the South Circ means a circuitous route home but would he think of walking it?

[malumbu]

sadly a young lady was killed on a Boris Bike

BBC London did not report it particularly inmpartially.

I have written to them.

Shame on you BBC London

Report the facts. Do not speculate.

Tom Edwards Transport correspondent, London

We don't know the exact circumstances of what happened.

Whether the experience of the cyclist riding the hire bike is a factor we don't know. [Why speculate? You are putting views into the readers minds]

We also don't know yet if the painted blue lane of the Cycle Superhighway lulled the cyclist into a false sense of security. [Ditto]

A poor lazy piece of journalism.

You could just as easy say. We don't know whether the driver involved was drunk or on a mobile phone

Worse still from their website:

Thanks to Terry G L Rowe who commented on BBC London's Facebook page about the cyclist killed in a crash with a lorry and how safe cycling in London is.

He said: "I am an x-lorry driver and the amount of times bikes came up my inside was madness some cyclists, they run red lights some cyclists, [go] wrong way down one way streets some cyclists etc & its always the lorry drivers fault!!! we have to take a test which lasts about 2hrs, what do bike riders do?? ?just take of there stabilisers and off into the roads!!!!!!

[some drivers drive whilst on their mobile phones, most don't 'mirror, signal, manoeuvre', many run red lights, some couldn't give a monkeys about other road users. So now who's fault is it?

Report useful things like the TfL work to educate both drivers and cyclists, including the opportunities for cyclists to sit in the cab of a HGV to get the lorry drivers perspective.

Not impressed.

Malumbu

Pedestrian, cyclist, motor cyclist, driver, human being.

[Laddy Muck]

Interesting that it was the school run which got you cycling to work, Applespider. My most serious bike injury was caused by a school run mum who suddenly veered/turned left without warning. She said she hadn't seen me as her children had obscured her view.

Yes, very sad to read about another cyclist death on the road, Malumbu. This one comes after another one just a few weeks previously (in Lewisham, I think). Did you ever receive a response from the BBC?

If any of you would like to see adequate measures put into place so as to make our streets more cycle-friendly and for the current road laws to be more strictly enforced, then you may wish to sign this epetition: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196 .

[ed_pete]

I'm a commuting cyclist myself and I don't want to open up the whole cyclist vs other road users debate, however I have to admit I was somewhat amused by a cycle courier I came up behind on Gresham St this evening whose calves where tattooed:

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