Cycling: issues/noticeboard

[Saturn 5]

Another cyclist killed a couple of days ago, this time by an olympic shuttle bus. The government don't care.

[Saturn 5]

Holy crap! A gold medal for GB and they have beaten the world record in the men's team pursuit. Amazing cycling.

[Saturn 5]

Superb gold for Pendleton.

[Saturn 5]

Sorry for going on, but what a great day for cycling.

[MelC]

I want to get a bike rack for my car so I can take my bike next time I head out for a weekend in the country. Any suggestions on where to go locally to buy one?

[binary_star]

I already posted this on the Wiggins thread but should go here, worth a watch:

"War on Britain's Roads"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mobile/iplayer/episode/b01p7q2l/War_on_Britains_Roads

[katanita]

Has anyone found any nice coats that are good for cycling in out there? I am cycling more now in regular clothes to meetings around town etc and since my altura nightvision jacket is perishing on the inside I am looking to find something a bit smarter which doesn't leave me covered in what looks like fluorescent dandruff.

These are nice, but a little pricey http://www.wateroffaducksback.co.uk/ladieswear-1-c.asp Doesn't have to be made for cycling, necessarily, though being bright and reflective is a bonus. Any tips? Thanks!

[Applespider]

I saw a guy wearing a Water off a Duck's Back raincoat on Saturday and was really impressed by it. The reversible reflective 'belt' on the back and the reflective bits under the collar were great and it really looked like a normal raincoat and smart. But yes, it's pricey.

I have two winter cycling jackets

- a Gore Phantom (year round really) with a merino jumper (or two on cold days) underneath. It's not entirely waterproof but it's stood up to 20-30 minutes of light rain without letting wet through. I picked it up in a sale though.

- a Giordana Silverline that I also got in a sale. It's red/white/grey and I have been complimented on it as a jacket although it still looks like a cycle one to me!

A colleague at work just bought himself a good ski jacket in TK Maxx to use on his bike. He reckons that it's just as water-resistant and warm. Some of ski ones aren't too bright although they don't have the reflective bits. You could always pick up a Sam Browne belt to go over the top for dark journeys?

[katanita]

I've also just had someone recommend these tweed capes for cycling to me. I mean, they are lovely, but ?450! http://www.dashingtweeds.co.uk/ladies-cape.html. And I definitely want a coat rather than a cape. Maybe a mac would be both stylish and practical. Anyway, thanks applespider. I'm going to try and find somewhere I can actually try on a Water off a Duck's Back jacket, and maybe that will sway me. Or maybe I'll just buy a cheap mac off ebay and sew on some reflective material...

[Saturn 5]

About time too! http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/drivers-who-stop-in-bike-boxes-face-60-fines-and-cctv-crackdown-8635559.html

[LadyDeliah]

Fantastic news! If this is enforced, cyclists won't need to try to get ahead of the traffic by going through the lights before they change to green.

[katanita]

I think it's likely to make drivers more aware of the cycle lanes, which is a good thing. If they are also enforcing the mandatory cycle lanes that's going to be more difficult of course, but sounds like that's the plan too. As long as it's clear to drivers that mandatory doesn't mean cyclists *have* to use them, which still seems to cause confusion.

[bon3yard]

One of my pet peeves, it remains to be seen how enforceable this is however. A cautious thumbs up though.

[KidKruger]

"As long as it's clear to drivers that mandatory doesn't mean cyclists *have* to use them, which still seems to cause confusion."

And that's exactly it, this is an educational issue and should be approached as such. At least for an initial period.

NOT as a cynical money-making exercise where many drivers are likely to earnestly be surprised and upset they have received a fine, to be doubled in 2 weeks time if not paid by then.

It's a bit like the dropped kerb lines suddenly painted in ED streets a few years ago with no warning. Residents woke up one morning, and for weeks afterwards, with parking infringement tickets under their window wipers, having parked no differently than previous years. No leafleting in the area to inform people, just fine them - coincidentally the mechanism that will generate maximum possible income. Sitting ducks.

Lazy, opportunistic answer to an education issue. It would be too much effort to consider methods for informing of the imminent proposals, giving people the opportunity to adjust their behaviours of their own accord, before being jumped for cash.

[katanita]

I meant the confusion around whether cyclists can also use the road, as well as the cycle lanes. Have been shouted at a few times to "stay in the cycle lane" when I don't have to do so, and frequently it's more dangerous/difficult to ride in it than out (cycle lane provision and quality being a whole other issue, of course).

But on the rest of your point, is this not already part of the highway code etc and therefore should be part of the instruction when learning to drive? I'm sure I got questions about cycling in my driving test. So drivers should already be aware, though I concede that they may not/may have had poor instruction. Talking to the press is obviously part of the process of making people aware, and there may be more they could do or are planning to do. Plus you would expect them to be putting up signage and so on. Not clear from that article whether they will do this or not, though you seem to be assuming that they won't. They have to for speed cameras etc, won't they have to for this?

If it's totally stealthy, then I'd agree it seems unfair. But if it's done openly, then, like speeding, surely it's up to the driver to pay attention. As for education beyond initial driving lessons, all kinds of people from all kinds of groups have been and are wrestling with ways to educate *all* road users about better road behaviour or "nudge" them into it, and there don't seem to be any easy solutions. Have you got any? I personally think, if done fairly, that this is a pretty good way to nudge behaviour.

[Annette Curtain]

Saturn 5 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> About time too!

> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/drivers-w

> ho-stop-in-bike-boxes-face-60-fines-and-cctv-crack

> down-8635559.html

Cack really.

I mean, it's a money raising exercise 1st and foremost

Bad motorist-good cyclist la la la

Maybe if they spent the money raised on pulling the unlit and dangerous two wheelers off the road, then safety could improve.

I am a cyclist and a motorist, though i've equal contempt for either.

My beef is that cycling has become the holy cow for London. Arse faced Boris on his silly bike won't entertain a hard campaign against cyclists breaking the law

But oh, dare you creep your wagon of terror into the said box, then ?60 from you please.

And the bikes continue to pour through the red lights - unlit at night

Yeah- free wheelin' man !

Edited to add, this is post 666. How spooky is that.

[bon3yard]

Why this constant us and them attitude as outlined above? Its truly depressing and offers nothing to the ongoing debate over the attempted integration of cyclists and motorists on Londons roads. Not all cyclists are irresponsible law breakers and not all car drivers are virtuous saints and stereotyping either is just unhelpful. The cycle boxes are put in place to ensure that bikes can get away quickly at lights and when they're impeded which they are an awful lot of the time it makes life unnecessarily difficult and potentially dangerous.

[DaveR]

"Bad motorist-good cyclist la la la "

Not so much this as "private motorist (especially if alone in car) bad, anything else good"

Which is a perfectly sensible transport policy for the Mayor of London to adopt. Driving a car in inner London when there is a viable alternative means of transport is an inherently selfish and anti-social act, and the punishment for it is getting stuck in traffic and getting stung for tickets. I have a car, I use it, I moan about traffic and tickets, but deep down I know the above to be true. And so do you.

[Saturn 5]

More good news for cyclists http://lcc.org.uk/articles/bikes-on-dlr-success-for-london-cycling-campaign

[Annette Curtain]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Bad motorist-good cyclist la la la "

>

> Not so much this as "private motorist (especially

> if alone in car) bad, anything else good"

>

> Which is a perfectly sensible transport policy for

> the Mayor of London to adopt. Driving a car in

> inner London when there is a viable alternative

> means of transport is an inherently selfish and

> anti-social act, and the punishment for it is

> getting stuck in traffic and getting stung for

> tickets. I have a car, I use it, I moan about

> traffic and tickets, but deep down I know the

> above to be true. And so do you.

Oh dear Dave

You've veered off as you do, then gone into a polarised rant vacuum

Anyway, as I said "My beef is that cycling has become the holy cow for London" Even in the face of obvious/dangerous infringements, there's no crackdown, nothing. Like it would be an admission of failure.

But the motorised vehicle users get penalised further, so the divide is drawn by those above who want policy over policing.

I drive on my own nearly everyday in the city. I know, say a hail mary. Trouble is there's no way of hulking 1500 kilos of product around any other way.

Though I do also carry my Brompton to scoot around once parked up for an hour, so I see both sides. Hand on heart, it's other cyclist that break the law the most consistently. Were it not the skill of experienced city drivers , then more wayward cyclists would be dead or injured.

But who'd want to admit that ?

[LadyDeliah]

Maybe once the needs and safety of cyclists are engineered into our roads with proper enforcement of breaches of safety measures, then cyclists will be properly integrated into traffic and therefore less likely to do sonething dangerous whilst trying to get through Motorist-dominated roads.

[DaveR]

"Anyway, as I said "My beef is that cycling has become the holy cow for London" Even in the face of obvious/dangerous infringements, there's no crackdown, nothing. Like it would be an admission of failure.

But the motorised vehicle users get penalised further, so the divide is drawn by those above who want policy over policing."

If you think there is evidence of a need for a 'crackdown', feel free to tell us. The issue here is enforcing (even in a small way) a policy that's already in place i.e. having advanced stop lines. As I understand it, your objection to this is its penalising motorists when cyclists are the real problem. Wow, nobody's ever said that before.

You have a car, and a bike. So do I. But you know the truth, and I am ranting in a vacuum.

Seriously, spare me.

[Applespider]

As a cyclist (no car but with driving licence), I think there's room for a crackdown on both bad cyclists and bad motorists. I'd like the motorists revving through the ASLs penalised and I'd like red-light jumpers of both varieties (blatant - usually cyclists - and those just going through after accelerating through an amber - usually motorists) to be done. I'd like motorists who are clearly going over 30mph in a 20 zone to get tickets. And I'd like all the ninja cyclists without lights to have their bikes confiscated until they show up to collect them with some lights. And let's chuck in some warnings for those motorists who pass within inches of the handlebars - and for those cyclists barrelling down the pavements. Hmm... stop those things and the roads (and pavements) would be a better place for all of us law-abiding types.

[henryb]

Yes would go along with that.

> I'd like motorists

> who are clearly going over 30mph in a 20 zone to

> get tickets.

The limit is 20. People going over 20 should be fined. I would be more than happy for it to be run by TFL or the local council if the police do not have the resources. Currently they are not enforced at all.

[Annette Curtain]

I'm with Applespider pretty much.

INMV 1st enforce the existing laws for cars & bikes. Do it in a way that sees infringements treated seriously.

Why don't some cyclists stop at lights ?

a.Because most are too lazy to stop/get going again.

b.Because they don't reckon on getting caught.

c. Well everyone else seems to get away with it

Laa Laa La Dave-fingers-in-my-ears-R cant see there's a bike problem, maybe he works for BoJo

See here for Dave's Uri Geller style answer bending:

>As I understand it, your objection to this is its penalising motorists when cyclists are the real problem. Wow, nobody's ever said that before<