Independent v State and the cost of before and after School Care

[Fuschia]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

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> Don't forget childcare vouchers too. I'm making

> the assumption that at least one of you pays the

> higher rate of tax, in which case you can get a

> massive subsidy by having the cost of the vouchers

> taken off your pre-tax income,onlypaying tax on

> the remiander.

well, a subsidy of 100 pcm on the max voucher of 243

[bawdy-nan]

but you can both get vouchers - it would mean your childcare costs are reduced by 20 - 40% which isn't bad, surely.

[Rhubarb&Custard]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Don't forget childcare vouchers too. I'm making

> the assumption that at least one of you pays the

> higher rate of tax, in which case you can get a

> massive subsidy by having the cost of the vouchers

> taken off your pre-tax income,onlypaying tax on

> the remiander.

Unless you're self-employed of course. No financial childcare help for those who work for themselves. Grrrrr...

[bawdy-nan]

yes its a relaly annoying anomaly, like the no cycle-to-work scheme too. You can get working tax credits which support childcare costs if you are self-employed. Although I don't imagine this would be of much interest to those fretting about the cost of private education ;-)

[Rhubarb&Custard]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You can get working tax

> credits which support childcare costs if you are

> self-employed. Although I don't imagine this would

> be of much interest to those fretting about the

> cost of private education ;-)

Why wouldn't it be of interest? Kind of a sweeping (and inaccurate) assumption that the cost of private education is somehow for the super wealthy and that tax benefits are of no importance to those who choose that route.

Nursery education (which many of us on here pay) is on a par, if not more than private primary /secondary education. It's a fact that my child's 4 day a week nursery education is actually more annually than the fees of a well known local private pre-prep school up the road. Therefore it's wrong to assume that someone paying out upwards of ?9K a year for private primary education is less likely to be interested in tax benefits (in whatever form) than someone paying ?9K a year for nursery education.

Sorry to go off topic / thread, but the often wildly inaccurate prejudice about state v private and income annoys me. So many of us are shelling out one way or another, and just as much, so that our children can be taken care of/ educated / picked up after school etc etc., while we work.

[littleEDfamily]

Yep - the ?100 or so we save a month via Childcare vouchers is a very much needed bit of relief. Didn't know about working tax credits for the self employed.... must investigate....

[new mother]

BN, I think you'd be surprised how many low earning parents make substantial sacrifices for private education, going without holidays, cars, bigger house and the biggest sacrifice of them all, another child.

Something like this scheme might well be of interest/help so thank you for mentioning it.

[Rhubarb&Custard]

littleEDfamily Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yep - the ?100 or so we save a month via Childcare

> vouchers is a very much needed bit of relief.

> Didn't know about working tax credits for the self

> employed.... must investigate....

It's a bit of a minefield from our experience (both myself and my partner are self-employed). If you are self-employed, working tax credit is calculated according to your earnings forecast (i.e. a year ahead of submitting your actual tax return). Therefore if you earn any amount over your forecast you end up owing the tax man. We found to our horrible cost that working tax credit for the self-employed is good only if you know your projected self-employed income precisely (which is pretty hard for many self-employed) - if not then expect to pay back the sums over a year later. For us working tax credit proved a head ache, and threw long-term financial planning out of the window.

While I am grateful for being self-employed, and love it, I do feel we are penalised if we have kids - no childcare vouchers and a working tax credit system that does not favour how we work / pay our tax.

[bawdy-nan]

Rhubarb&Custard Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> bawdy-nan Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > You can get working tax

> > credits which support childcare costs if you

> are

> > self-employed. Although I don't imagine this

> would

> > be of much interest to those fretting about the

> > cost of private education ;-)

>

> Why wouldn't it be of interest? Kind of a

> sweeping (and inaccurate) assumption that the cost

> of private education is somehow for the super

> wealthy and that tax benefits are of no importance

> to those who choose that route.

Working tax credits are to support the cost of child care or after school care and not for school costs. So they can be applied to the private nursery that costs 9k a year but not to the private school. In order to have a significant impact on reducing those costs you'd need to be earning a relatively low income. You're eligible up to 50k household earnings but the tax credits payable wouldn't have any kind of significant impact. For example, a couple both working 30 hours a week or more earning 50k and paying 100 a week in childcare costs would get around 500 pounds a year in tax credits, If they earn 40k between them they'd get around 800 quid, below that as a joint income and you start to get more. The same couple earning a joint income of 30k would get about 4723, or roughly 90 a week in tax credits.

Perhaps I'm being naive but to pay for a private education I would have thought you'd need a joint household income of more than 40k a year. Fees are paid our of taxed income of course and if you pay your own rent and bills it would seem an unlikely stretch (after tax and one set of 9k school fees you'd have less than 18k to pay for your rent, bills, food and transport). If you're earning more than that n(ie 40k) you're probably better off using childcare vouchers as a more tax efficient way of reducing your childcare costs (though its not always clear and is worth checking that out).

I didn't say that private education was only for the super-rich. I did suggest that if your income is high enough to enable you to pay for private education then tax credits probably aren't your best bet for reducing after-school care costs.

Incidentally, I know that nursery fees are high. I've had two children go through it but because I had a low income I was assisted by working tax credits. I'm a single parent and work full-time paying for after-school care again, making use of tax credits without which I wouldn't be able to work. (Hope you're listening George Osbourne)...

BTW There's a brilliant site which can help you see what you might be eligible for and allows you to model different scenarios (to see what happens if you go full-time, for example) www.entitledto.co.uk

> Nursery education (which many of us on here pay)

> is on a par, if not more than private primary

> /secondary education. It's a fact that my child's

> 4 day a week nursery education is actually more

> annually than the fees of a well known local

> private pre-prep school up the road. Therefore

> it's wrong to assume that someone paying out

> upwards of ?9K a year for private primary

> education is less likely to be interested in tax

> benefits (in whatever form) than someone paying

> ?9K a year for nursery education.

>

> Sorry to go off topic / thread, but the often

> wildly inaccurate prejudice about state v private

> and income annoys me. So many of us are shelling

> out one way or another, and just as much, so that

> our children can be taken care of/ educated /

> picked up after school etc etc., while we work.

[bawdy-nan]

The self-employed thing is difficult, I agree. I was self-employed all the time my children were at nursery. WTC is caclulated on what you earned in the previous year. It used to be extremely difficlut to make a judgement about whether to ask them (HMRC) to make an adjustment because you knew your earnings might be more or less and yes, you could end up owing moeny if your income was more than it had been the previous year but the rules changed quite recently so that you only end up owing money if your income goes up by 20k (which is a pretty significant margin)

Rhubarb&Custard Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> littleEDfamily Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Yep - the ?100 or so we save a month via

> Childcare

> > vouchers is a very much needed bit of relief.

> > Didn't know about working tax credits for the

> self

> > employed.... must investigate....

>

> It's a bit of a minefield from our experience

> (both myself and my partner are self-employed).

> If you are self-employed, working tax credit is

> calculated according to your earnings forecast

> (i.e. a year ahead of submitting your actual tax

> return). Therefore if you earn any amount over

> your forecast you end up owing the tax man. We

> found to our horrible cost that working tax credit

> for the self-employed is good only if you know

> your projected self-employed income precisely

> (which is pretty hard for many self-employed) - if

> not then expect to pay back the sums over a year

> later. For us working tax credit proved a head

> ache, and threw long-term financial planning out

> of the window.

>

> While I am grateful for being self-employed, and

> love it, I do feel we are penalised if we have

> kids - no childcare vouchers and a working tax

> credit system that does not favour how we work /

> pay our tax.

[littleEDfamily]

Thanks for the info re: tax credits etc, BN!!

[pinkgirl]

Hi there,

I am Currently A manager of an afterschool club and am looking for a venue in or around Dulwich, Westnorwood, Streatham, Crystal palace, Gypsi hill etc.. If any of you are able to help me find a venue for low rent or even better FREE!! I will give your child a free place for a year!

I will offer care for less than kidscity are currently offering at Rosemead. Providing my rent is cheap.

I am already known to and registerd as a suitable person with ofsted. I am highly qualified and experienced.

All I need is the venue and the children!.

Any help will be appreciated and rewarded.

Thanks!!!1:)-D