Nanny share rates - how much do you pay?

[Fuschia]

emc Wrote:

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> So, splitting between two families we pay ?7.25 an

> hour each gross.

I thik that compares quite well with a minder - ?5 APPROX P/H per child and with a nusery, more than that

[littleEDfamily]

In most jobs where employees are on a 'gross' contract, tax comes out of that figure at the appropriate rate of tax as well as employees' National Insurance. Employers pay additional NI on top of that.

Some nannies are on net contracts (which most nanny payroll providers advise against as it means the employee gets no benefit from positive changes to taxation and the employer gets shafted by negative changes), which means their pay is fixed at that net rate.

More commonly the negotiations happen in 'net' speak (so the nanny is basically negotiating a take home pay rate) and then the payroll provider grosses that up and that gross amount goes into the contract. It means there may be minor variations to net pay on a monthly basis and as regulations change. So a nanny you have negotiated a net rate of ?7.50per hour with would actually be costing you ?10 an hour. I do think a lot of nannies don't properly appreciate the actual cost of their employment, and I do think it is bizarre the constant talking in 'net' rates - fine for a casual babysitter, but not someone trying to be taken seriously as a professional!

That all said, I agree that a nanny share does compare quite favourably with nursery, where rates for under twos go up to ?70 a day (but more commonly around ?50).

I'm not a payroll specialist so don't take any of that as gospel, but hopefully fairly accurate!

[chelle184]

When you choose a nanny parents are choosing to have the one on one interaction which I believe is so vitally important for under 5's but especially for under 2's. Children are sponges and they should be able to go on daily outings in their environments, have that close bond with someone whom will provide love, nuture them in every area of development and encourage their progress through such important stages in their life. Which a nanny will hopefully provide. I am not saying that a childminder or nursery will not provide all of the above but a childminder may have 3 other children aswell as school pick ups etc... so a childminder may not be so flexable to be able to plan their day to your childs specific needs. Which is why they are not as expensive as a nanny/share. I know alot of childminders whom are fantastic so I hope no-one has taken offence to the above. I am just trying to stick up for us nannies whom work very hard, love their jobs and work very long hours with no breaks (as my charges are older). Childcare is very expensive but surely as parents you want the best possible care that you can afford and I am so pleased that nannyshares are becoming more popular as it means it is no longer that the upper class are the only ones whom can afford nannies.

As far as a nannyshare goes taking care of 2 babies, 2 families, 2 different routines, 2 different needs, having eyes in the back of you head aswell as trying to keep sane is a very hard job! A nanny who is involved in a share normally get ?2 extra of their normal typical rate. So if the nanny normal get ?8 an hour then in a share it will be ?10 (according to simply childcare). It is true there isnt any specific guildelines to what you should or shouldnt pay which is sometime why all of the confussion. Those parents who have twins will appreciate how hard it is having 2 little ones the same age. Each one going in a different direction, both wanting the same toy, both teething and crying! So it isnt just the extra hassle its the fact its double the work!

I am a nanny aswell as a trained montessori teacher and yes I did study for 3 years to become qualified so not all nannies arent trained and the majority of nannies I know have been trained in early years. So no not as long as a doctor but I didnt one day wake up and think Im going to be a nanny.

I hope I have made the point without upsetting anyone, that yes nannies are more expensive but you kind of get what you pay for! I love my charges dearly and I put my heart and sole into the job so seeing some of the comments are a little upsetting which is why I had to write something.

[jam]

Most nanny jobs also are pretty short term, so we are potentially looking to get a new job every few years as parents tend to have more children, put them in nursery, want a nanny share and so on. So the job security is never great and I have gone weeks/months without a job whilst I look for a replacement job.

[Jo31]

Our nanny charges ?90 a day (10 hour day). We're two families in a share and split the daily rate 50/50. She is registered self employed so takes care of her own tax and NI. And she's OFSTED registered so can accept child vouchers (a huge saving if you are a 40% tax payer).

[littleEDfamily]

If chelle184 is the nanny I suspect she may be, from what I have seen of her on many occasions is that she is worth every penny!

[amydown]

littleEDfamily, I think chelle184 IS the nanny she may be thinking of and I believe our son is extremely lucky to be looked after her.;-)

I have looked into many childcare options and decided to go with nannyshare because our nanny is so wonderfully loving and caring and I just knew that there is no way he would get that feeling of being adored from other care options. I do think it is very important for young babies to have the one to one care.

And yes, childcare is expensive but it's absolutely all dictated by the market - supply and demand after all. Chelle184 is absolutely, without a doubt, worth every penny!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

So nice to read of parents thinking their nanny is worth it, and you are right Amy, Supply and Demand!

[reneet]

If you could declare yourself as a company, your house would be your premises and therefore an expense, the nanny could also be an expense and you could even through in groceries as an expense then you could pay tax only on your profits which would be nothing in most our cases. I think the nanny salary scheme needs amending, its ridiculous to pay their tax and NI from one's gross.

[chelle184]

A HUUUUUGGGGGE thankyou Amy and little ED for the support!!!! :) xxx

I felt I had to stick up for us nannies and explain yes we maybe more expensive than other childcareers/nurseries but that is because we provide more! It isnt just a job, we become part of the family and look after your most prized poccession in life in the most important part of their lives.

Yes I do agree that a nanny should work on a gross salary but unfortunately its always been worked out on a net hourly basis.

Thanks again guys :) xx

[EmmaG]

I find it amazing that the hourly rate for cleaning is ?9 - ?10 per hour and that the hourly rate for childcare is less. I'd rather be a cleaner - have R4 on, nip out for the odd ciggy, clean the house in any order you like, you're responsible for the house, yes but not for an actual human life.

[womanofdulwich]

very true, although I am sure some nannies do have Radio 4 on and nip out for a ciggy too ( fair enough!)

[Mellors]

I think I'd be reducing my cleaner's rate if I had to pay her for 40 hours a week though.....

[ClareC]

Mellors Wrote:

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> I think I'd be reducing my cleaner's rate if I had

> to pay her for 40 hours a week though.....

Totally agree!!

Cleaners don't get paid for every hour of the working day, their travel between jobs is unpaid and each job is probably 2 or 3 hours, realistically a max of 3 jobs a day, more than likely 2.

[R&A]

i think the rate for part time nannies is higher for this very reason... i.e. full time rate drops because of the hours advantage

[new mother]

"Government policy is seriously squewed against the middle class working mother who wants a career."

I totally agree with the above poster.

Mommiemae - one pays a nanny eg 8/9 per hour AFTER her tax. This costs you 50 hours times eg 8 ie 400 AFTER ALL HER TAX AND YOUR NI as an employer. You can look on Nannytax to find what this grosses up to - 579 per week. I agree it is totally weird to be looking at things on a net basis. I need to find approx 28,000 a year out of my POST tax income.

As regards the comparison with junior drs, yes it is an awful situation where highly intelligent and compassionate people, the very cream of our achievers, are valued so badly.

As regards the comp with cleaners, cleaners seldom work 10 hours a day in one location so they waste time travelling, they aren't paid for the lunch hour and they don't get 2 plus hours off a day when the child sleeps. Thye don't get 4 weeks holiday pay either generally. Over a 10 hour day, nannies actually work 8 max. Most hourly workers are paid for the hours they actually work.

Basically, the system has to change. It will because employers like us are realising that it is not sustainable financially.

OTOH, I was told recently that 10 years ago there would have been many many more jobs available than today. Looks to me like nannies are pricing themselves out of the market and employers are increasingly staying home or using nurseries.

[Fuschia]

new mother Wrote:

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>

(cleaners) aren't paid for the lunch

> hour and they don't get 2 plus hours off a day

> when the child sleeps. ...

>

>

> OTOH, I was told recently that 10 years ago there

> would have been many many more jobs available than

> today. Looks to me like nannies are pricing

> themselves out of the market and employers are

> increasingly staying home or using nurseries.

I think you'll find that a nanny still works out cheaper than a nursery if you have two ort more children, plus there are fewq ways to arrange school drops and pick ups if you have an older child.

Those families who think a nanny isn't worth the money won't use one.. minders are a great alternative if you have just one child and can find one.

Btw, do you honestly think a nanny is taking an hour for lunch and not working while the child/ren nap? Do you take a 2 hour break in the middle of the day if you are looking after your children yourself? I certainly don't. I am lucky to grab a few short breaks of 10-15 mins during the day ... I certainly don't begrudge any childcarer the same sort of break!!

[Fuschia]

It is frustrating that it costs so much to pay for childcare so we can work.. but don't put the blame on the nannies, who are hardly overpaid for what they do!

[Smiler]

Interesting thread!

When we were looking at childcare options we found it difficult to work out what a nanny or share would actually cost in total (since lots of the discussions were along the lines of ?X per hour net), it was not transparent at all.

For those with more than one child, especially under two, nursery can be v.expensive too, especially in and around East Dulwich since there are no council-run nurseries (except Gumboots I think, though not sure).

Re. "self-employed" nannies, be careful: HMRC has stringent rules on what it classifies as self-employment vs PAYE, and is cracking down on "false" self-employment. A nanny working for just one or two families would probably be classified as employed, not self-employed, regardless of what her contract said, so families could be liable for unpaid tax.

[new mother]

btw that reminds me!

employers are well advised to agree the GROSS wage so that eg where a nanny has underpaid for some reason in the past, you don't end up having to pay her more to meet your (anachronistic) NET agreement...

[apenn]

I've raised this in some of my nanny interviews but it seems that there aren't really any nannies out there willing to talk about gross pay. Any nannies reading this thread have anything to say about that?

[brettuk]

The nanny payroll service we are working with charges ?95/year, they take care of everything and allows me to spend time working on other projects. :)