Baby fighting to latch on

[Belle]

Tania -a lso at Dulwich Therapy Rooms - really good and handled my exciteable little boy really well. hard to say definitively whether what they do works but it certainly calmed us both down which is worth something!

[Countjc]

thank you for all the recommendations and heidi i think that is great advice and you are not being harsh. i always have a bottle on standby just in case.

the good news is that he has latched perfectly the last 3 feeds without a fight and he has gained 350 g in the last 6days so am really pleased. am sure the osteopath trip must have helped

but i now have nipple thrush so another obstacle to get past!!

[Gubodge]

Make sure they give you medication for the small's mouth as well as for your nipples, otherwise you'll keep re-infecting. Oh and change your towels and bras daily and wash them at 60 degrees. Not that you've got anything better to do.

So glad the feeding's going well.

[Fuschia]

You may need tablets for the thrush, not sure cream is very effective

[bli]

Oh that's rubbish luck. Apparently its not uncommon to get thrush with tongue tied babies - supposedly the damage done to the nipples makes you susceptible tho I guess it must have to be in your system in first place. We've been fighting it (and tongue tie) for the last 7 weeks so have a fair amount of info - have PM'd you.

[Princess]

You have my sympathy. We had thrush for about 10 weeks. Did the doc prescribe you the circular gel dressings? They really were amazing and made the excruciating pain a little more bearable immediately.

[Countjc]

doc is convinced its mastitis rather than thrush- i am sure it is not as i dont feel fluey or can feel any blocked ducts. she then had a look at my son and agreed he had thrush on his bum so agreed i might have it but has given me treatment for both (although surely antibiotics can make thrush worse so going to avoid if i can)

I have got the circular wound dressings called novogel which clare recommended but again doc felt that nipples should be kept dry, not moist. so much conflicting advice.

also am having to express and bottle feed now as dr said nipples are possibly permanently damaged so giving them a rest till the snip on tues but this has actually taken a bit of pressure off me. just praying that they arent permanently damaged!

thank again

j

[hpsaucey]

Mastitits can come on pretty quick - knocked me out for a couple of days in a BIG way - so I THINK you'd probably know if you'd got it, unless its a slow burner.

Countjc Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> doc is convinced its mastitis rather than thrush-

> i am sure it is not as i dont feel fluey or can

> feel any blocked ducts. she then had a look at my

> son and agreed he had thrush on his bum so agreed

> i might have it but has given me treatment for

> both (although surely antibiotics can make thrush

> worse so going to avoid if i can).

Sure someone else has said this but cranberry v good for thrush and lots of water ton flush it out, and yes, you're right about antibiotics and thrush!

Hope the docs wrong!

Helen

>

> I have got the circular wound dressings called

> novogel which clare recommended but again doc felt

> that nipples should be kept dry, not moist. so

> much conflicting advice.

>

> also am having to express and bottle feed now as

> dr said nipples are possibly permanently damaged

> so giving them a rest till the snip on tues but

> this has actually taken a bit of pressure off me.

> just praying that they arent permanently damaged!

>

> thank again

> j

[Fuschia]

http://www.nes.scot.nhs.uk/pharmacy/breastfeeding/topic4/fluconazole.html

Thrush and Oral Fluconazole - that's what I'd go for for quick resolution.

[linzkg]

I had mastitis / blocked duct and thrush from my little boy etc .. I battled it out for at least 2 months trying to make it work .. and almost 11 months on I'm happily breastfeeding still. (I was also over producing milk from one which made it even worse)

Just try anything and everything until something works for you - or at least eases the pain - but it'll get better I'm sure!

Claire, the breast feeding specialist at Kings told me that the most efficient part of the baby's mouth is the bottom lip as it needs the milk out (so to speak - bare with me here as I'm not quite sure how to explain this in the written word!!) so if your blocked duct is at the bottom of your breast (usually a definite red area) then make sure you're feeding lying down, so that your baby's bottom lip is pressing against the blocked duct so it's massaging the infected area but also emptying that area at the same time (and if I'm not making any sense ask Claire!!) but I actually did find that it worked for me.

PS, if you and possibly baby end up on anti-biotics maybe buy some probiotics for your little one such as Udo's Choice from Health Matters. My son was put straight onto antibiotics when he was born and I didn't have the choice so I bought him a bottle .. thought better then not!

[hpsaucey]

Can I second the probiotics for little ones from Health Matters. My newborn also had to go onto antibiotics so I gave him this as well.

H

Mylinzkg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I had mastitis / blocked duct and thrush from my

> little boy etc .. I battled it out for at least 2

> months trying to make it work .. and almost 11

> months on I'm happily breastfeeding still. (I was

> also over producing milk from one which made it

> even worse)

>

> Just try anything and everything until something

> works for you - or at least eases the pain - but

> it'll get better I'm sure!

>

> Claire, the breast feeding specialist at Kings

> told me that the most efficient part of the baby's

> mouth is the bottom lip as it needs the milk out

> (so to speak - bare with me here as I'm not quite

> sure how to explain this in the written word!!) so

> if your blocked duct is at the bottom of your

> breast (usually a definite red area) then make

> sure you're feeding lying down, so that your

> baby's bottom lip is pressing against the blocked

> duct so it's massaging the infected area but also

> emptying that area at the same time (and if I'm

> not making any sense ask Claire!!) but I actually

> did find that it worked for me.

>

> PS, if you and possibly baby end up on

> anti-biotics maybe buy some probiotics for your

> little one such as Udo's Choice from Health

> Matters. My son was put straight onto antibiotics

> when he was born and I didn't have the choice so I

> bought him a bottle .. thought better then not!

[ryedalema]

Umm - I'm going to be controversial and suggest your doc didn't give you very good advice. I'd go with Clare's recommendation. She's been doing it 30 odd years and has seen and read everything.

Our little tongue tied one had thrush too - manifested itself in extreme nappy rash (peeling skin the works poor love) and a bit of whiteness in her mouth. Clare's advice was to wash your hands throughly (obv) and put some thrush cream on each of four fingers:

Wipe the tongue with the first

The roof of the mouth with the second

The sides with the other two

And don't let the fingers touch each other in the process. Then wash again.

I took one of those all-in one canesten pills at the same time (one dose) and it cleared up straight away. But I didn't have anything on my nipples that I could see/feel in the first place so may not be the same for you.

There's a separate bottom cream (for the baby) that works really well. I'll try and find the old tube for the name if you get stuck.

[Gubodge]

I would agree that Clare's advice is likely to be better than your GP's. Breasts and breastfeeding have been her focus and specialism for years, the vast majority of GPs know very little about the subject. But you should aim to keep your nipples dry; thrush thrives in warm moist conditions.

If it did happen to be mastitis, as liznkg says, it is the baby's lower jaw that gives the strongest suck, so try and ensure the chin is pointed to the area of blockage. It can result in some interesting breastfeeding postitions, but is worth trying. But without an area of soreness on the breast, rather than the nipple itself, I'm not sure why mastitis is being diagnosed.

[linzkg]

I completely agree with Ryedalema - Claire told me to do exactly that too!

(though in the end, after I'd even tried the diet she gave me I couldn't get through it as the diet made me feel even more poorly as there was so much I couldn't have that gave me energy and there was only so many times a day I could change bras and breast pads and wash hands etc etc .. but obviously trying the natural way is generally the best way for sure (and I did feel very bad for using medical intervention.)

[Fuschia]

There is a breast clinic at Kings where I was referred when I had mastitis/abcess... GP and seldoc and a and e had all given me vwrong drugs

prob not relevat for thrush but for any nasty lumps etc you can get rferred there

[linzkg]

Gubodge - good work - you make it sound so simple to explain!! not like my attempt!!

[Countjc]

We had the snip yesterday and feeding does feel better although hard to know as my nipples are so destroyed! He is still fighting each time but I am hoping that as he learns he can do it without it being so hard for him that he will relax. e had a lovely session with the cranial osteopath today so hopefully will be more relaxed.

I think the antibiotics and thrush etc are not helping. thanksfor all the advice- we are loading up on probiotics etc and following all the routines for hygiene. So fingers crossed we will get there.

Once again, thank you everyone for all the reassurance and advice.

[darlin']

You have my full sympathy for the destroyed nipples! I experienced this particularly badly with my second baby and one doctor even gasped in horror when I went in desperation to see her for advice. I had to express and feed with a bottle, but even then the pump began to do more damage and soft tissue was actually coming off the ends (sorry if too much information!) It was pure, pure agony and I sobbed every time I had to feed her. Throw on top of that 2 bouts of mastitis in 2 weeks and thrush too and you can imagine the misery. BUT....it was all wonderfully resolved with the good advice of a midwife friend who came to help me out one night when I was just about to give up altogether. She told me I had to keep the nipples dry (even though moist wound healing is the best way to heal the cracks) because thrush thrives in damp conditions. I was very wary because the pain of scabs forming then being pulled off at each feed is agony, but I decided to give it a go and it worked! I used those nipple shells that allow air to get to nipple without them having to touch anything, and lived in them for about 2 days straight! The shredded, bleeding nipples literally healed within 48 hours. She also made me stop using Lansinoh for the same reason (I had been lathering on about half a tube after each feed/ pump!) That also helped. I also took Fluonazole as the creams were rubbish and had no effect. 2 midwives recommended it to me and said it's the best way to get rid of it from your system. You have to request it from the doctor though as of course, like most drugs it isn't licensed for b/feeding mothers.

REALLY hoping everything heals soon. Just wanted to reassure you that it can change very quickly and become easy and pain-free.