Baby fighting to latch on

[Countjc]

Hi there,

Firstly just wanted to say a huge thanks to all of you that gave me advice about coping with a C-section at kings. Things went ok in hospital but all the tips that you gave me definately made life easier, particularly taking in extra food.

Anyway, our lovely son was born 3 weeks ago today, a little early and jaundiced but well otherwise. I am having some major issues breast feeding and have looked at lots of past posts on here for tips but i think this one is a little unusual. He has a major fight every time I try to latch him on and in the early days it was sometimes taking an hour to get him on. In the meantime he utterly destroyed my nipples as the latches weren't always great. I've seen to great midwives and been to a breastfeeding cafe and have now perfected the latch and used all the advice given on here for cracked nipples but the fighting persists.

We tried swaddling his hands behing him but that makes him more angry- he loves having his hand stretched out. He is quite windy so I am making sure that he is getting it all up after a feed, am using infacol and colief in his nightime bottle of expressed milk which is definately helping him on the wind front. i gave him 24 hours off the breast (to try to get the nipples to heal) and just on expressed milk in the bottle and he came straight back to the breast. my latest tactic is to get him on as soon as he wakes up but it is still a battle and i often need my partner/mum/midwife to help. we are going to kings to see if he is tongue tied but i am still not sure if that will solve the fighting.

so i was wondering if anyone had ever experienced anything similar and has any tips or advice. I am determined to keep at it and teach him how to do it but by the end of the day I am in floods of tears for each feed and get very nervous as it leads up to a feed which I know probably makes matters worse. also the thought of being home alone and trying to do it terrifies me- my mum is currently here but cant stay forever.

sorry for the long ranting email, hope someone out there can help.

[Pickle]

As the Mum of a tongue-tied baby (not diagnosed until 6-8 weeks old) I think this sounds very similar to our situation. He used to arch his back and really fight against the breast, but when given a bottle was a lot better (you mention you've given a bottle, but not whether the same problem occurs?). We spent a lot of time perfecting the latch too, which at the end of it all was a futile exercise when he was still tongue tied as it didn't make any difference to his ability to be able to feed.

We eventually got it fixed at Kings, and things steadily improved.

His tongue tie, while "mild" in terms of being able to see it (it wasn't obvious at all to look at him) was bad enough to affect feeding.

This may not be the problem in your case, but I just wanted to give my experience. Well done for perservering, I know how stressful it is in the early weeks with a baby not feeding properly.

Good luck, and keep us updated.

Pippa x

[Mellors]

It really sounds like it could be a tongue tie to me, I had it with both mine and the fighting you describe (and pain latching on) was exactly the same. It wasn't picked up by midwives, health visitors or the breastfeeding cafe I went to until I went to Kings in desperation.

If you have a look in his mouth it might be quite obvious - his tongue will be "heart shaped" and ort of pulling in in the middle. If you can't see it it might stil be there though. Defo get him checked out.

I had to express milk and bottle feed mine until it was fixed as they really couldn't feed at all and lost lots of weight (bottle is different as they don't have to suck in the same way). Have you tried a bottle?

Good luck whatever it is, I know what a nightmare you are going through x

[Mellors]

Ah Pickle, I was hoping you'd see this as a fellow mother of a tongue tied child! x

[Countjc]

wow thanks guys- am literally heading to kings in an hour to see the tongue tie specialist there so maybe that is the case! thanks for the kind words, fingers crossed

j

[Mellors]

Do let us know, I really hope in a way it is, so you can get it fixed (the op is a tiny snip, nothing to worry about - even though you will!) x

[ryedalema]

Yep same - our youngest had a tongue tie too. Go and see Clare Kedves at Kings - she's the breastfeeding coordinator and a complete Mecca for Mums with infants like yours and ours. I promise you she's a total marvel - she'll sort you straight out.

Good luck xxx

Also - search her name on here (I think I've spelled her surname correctly) - you'll see lots of parents saying the same about her.

xx

[Pickle]

Hope the appointment went well, let us know how you go.

P x

[Gubodge]

Tongue-tied or not, you could try feeding in the bath. It relaxes them, and can make things a lot easier.

[Fuschia]

Maybe try cranial osteopathy ?

[fhmum]

May I say something that could be unpopular? I had trouble with my first child that sounds similar. It wasn't a tongue tie, and remains unexplained to this day. I persisted for 6 weeks with the breastfeeding until her weight started to drop. Like you, I ended everyday in tears, dreaded being alone with my gorgeous daughter and it was all dreadful and emotionally draining. It's not like you don't have enough to cope with with a newborn! Anyway, in the end, I gave in and fed her formula. I hated myself of course but I suddenly realised that we had our life back. Feeding my daughter became a pleasure, she gained weight rapidly and we were able to leave the house - something I had to avoid when getting her latched onto my enormous bosoms was such a trial. Again, don't take this as advice to give up - God forbid! I just want to say that my daughter has always been healthy, happy and is now three years old. She makes excellent choices of what to eat when left to decide. There's so much to enjoy about having your new baby and not just breastfeeding! Good luck with getting it sorted but if you can't or choose not to, you'll still be a wonderful Mum.

[Countjc]

Thanks again ladies

We saw Clare last night and she was amazing. She diagnosed a posterior tongue tie before even looking inside his mouth just from seeing my nipples and the blisters all round his lips. she then showed us how his tongue kept sliding off the latch and that all his back arching and fighting is because he is so frustrated as each feed is so hard for him and he is clinging on with his lips. also as he cant latch properly, that is causing all the wind. It is such a relief to know what is going on and i can even feel it now each feed when he falls off. really hope that we get to see the dr next week for the snip.

Fuschia thanks also for the tip- we are actually going to see a cranial osteopath today in E. Dulwich. Clare thought that he could help with his chin alignment and the fact he also has a spoon shaped palet.

Just got to get through the next few days but am hoping that knowing there is a solution will give me more confidence.

thanks again everyone

Jenny

[ryedalema]

Wonderful news that Clare could help CJC - it must be such a relief.

I just wanted to say a few words about the tongue-tie procedure. Firstly - it doesn't distress the babies much at all. It's a very small snip and they do it when the baby is hungry so that the first thing they do afterwards is bring the baby to you to latch on (with plenty of experts on hand to help with that), this cauterises the cut and the baby will be so relieved at feeding without distress that they will simply get on with it.

There were a few tears from the parents however. It's quite a pressured environment - there were 23 couples with babies in a smallish room when I went - all a bit fearful of the unknown (and of course making baby go through something medical).

Please don't worry - it takes seconds and you don't get to watch (you'll have your boobs out next door :-$).

A bit of a tip which I probably shouldn't divulge. They take the baby that is crying loudest first. So if you can bear it - take clothes off (if they are sleeping) etc. otherwise you might have to wait a while and the anxiety only mounts.

The results are instant though- we never looked back after little C was done.

On another related note though - little C mix feeds too (as she was diagnosed with breastmilk jaundice). Absolutely nothing wrong with that and deffo not something that should tie you in knots. There's plenty out there that's more worthy of our grey hairs !

Good luck xxx

[Pickle]

I'm so pleased that you found out the cause, brilliant news.

When my son had his fixed (over 3 years ago now) there wasn't a tongue tie clinic, so we went into a room by ourselves. I not only watched, I helped hold him down!! He was older than the average baby getting a tongue tie fixed so was causing them all sorts of problems and not cooperating at all. However despite that I didn't find it upsetting at all as I knew it was a solution to all the problems we had.

A word of warning - it's not always an immediate fix. It took us a good few weeks of perserverance to get BFing established succesfully after his op. We happily mixed fed him, nothing wrong with a bit of formula if it helps keep you both sane :)

Good luck with the op x

[joey]

I'm really glad you managed to get everything sorted and I wish you lots of luck with the tongue tie procedure. If you have any future problems we are starting up a breast feeding advisory business called Breast for Baby. If you want any further information you can either look at our website www.breast4baby.co.uk or feel free to PM me.

[The Nappy Lady]

CJC,

Just want to say how pleased I am that they have found the cause of your problems.

Do keep us all posted on progress. Hope the next few days are easier, and less painful, if only because you know

the 'solution' is in sight.

Molly

x

[bli]

So pleased you've found out the reason and will get it sorted. Can I offer some extra advice as the mum of three tongue-tied children - definitely feed frequently after the procedure as they will advise you at the clinic, but also massage under the tongue a few times a day from two days after it's done (not immediately though).

My latest baby has had the procedure done twice but each time it has healed back! From what we can tell, though he fed frequently, he still didn't move his tongue enough to stop it healing (as Picle said it can take soem time for them relearn). The only option open to us now is under a general anaesthetic which is obviously something we'd all like to avoid. Cranial ospteopathy is really helping us though - so great you're doing that as well.

Good luck, fingers crossed you get into the next clinic and it's all sorted soon

[linzkg]

Countjc - so glad you seem to have things sorted and well on your way! Keep going - its definitely worth it!

Was also going to suggest a cranial osteopath as my son has been seeing one since he was born almost 11 months ago and she's made an incredible difference to him and his health. All the best.

[Fuschia]

I'm glad you have made a big leap forward in fidning out what's wrong and hope things will start to turn around now and you will be able to properly enjoy your new baby

x

[Countjc]

thanks for all the kind messages

we saw the cranial osteopath yesterday and it made him v. relaxed and his feeding feels more effecient but still an almighty fight each time to get him on. am wondering if anyone could recommend the osteopaths they have used?

those of you who had tongue tied babies, have you got any tips for how to calm him before a feed as it is so stressful. i know it's only days till the snip but i am wondering how on earth i can get through just today. i do have plenty of expressed milk so can do the odd bottle. i thinkhe must have formed an assosciation with feeds being hard work for him as he will be totaly calm until he is nose to nipple and then the back arching head banging starts. i can still only manage rugby ball hold as he is so wild.

thanks again, it is so nice to have so much support from all you ladies. i knew it was going tobe tough having a baby bi had no idea how heartwrenching it could be!

j

[Pickle]

In the weeks before our tie was fixed I was feeding mainly via bottle, and expressing "full time". What I found worked well for us was to give him a bottle feed (but not quite enough to fill him up) and then give him time on the breast - that way he wasn't starving hungry, was generally quite relaxed and sleepy. He could barely get any milk by suckling from me before his operation, but I kept offering the breast so that he didn't lose the ability to breast feed and it worked well.

Good luck x

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I think you should offer him a bottle of expressed milk and once he has the snip thenfocus on the breast as he will have to get used to feeding with his new tongue anyway so no point forcing him whilst he is tongue tied.

My son was tongue tied also, I spotted it, and turns out it was a severe tongue tie. I offered him a bottle which he would take because then I know he is feeding and he is not hungry, it seemed unfair to make him suffer and be hungry just because I wanted to breast feed. Once he had the snip then it took a few weeks of him mastering feeding with his new tongue, but 8 months on and he is striving and breast feeding is so easy.

Good luck!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Sorry if that came across as harsh, I did not mean it to, but just the first few weeks of life they are suckling so much in order to pack on body weight, and though I was upset about the breast feeding being a struggle, I knew it was more important that my son was fed, so hence he was fed by bottle the majority of the time, and offered the breast after. He will not lose the ability to breast feed because as I said once he has his tongue snip,, he will have to relearn to suckle with his new tongue anyway, my son suckled straight away after his he his tongue snip, Claire makes sure that the babies can feed before she lets you go home.

It just seems a shame to upset your son, whilst he is struggling with the tongue tie, so since your appointment is not too far ahead, it would probably be better to just let him feed via the bottle in order not to upset him and to make him resent the breast.

[linzkg]

Elaine at Dulwich Therapy Rooms, above Dulwich Health Matters on Lordship Lane is fantastic! She is so good with the little ones. I have a load of friends taking their kids to her for various reasons and they all rate her. Our little one had a traumatic start and had some damage both physically and internally which she has worked through and managed to resolve some of it - and other then that he's always been a totally easy going, good natured, good feeding, good sleeping kid and I'm sure the treatments have helped .. all the best!

[Knomester]

I would recommend Jo Mitchell who is a cranial osteopath at the Sunflower Centre in Brockley. I have begun sessions with her after she came highly recommended to me. She works with a lot of babies and children as well as pregnant women (like myself) and adults of all ages.

I hope everything goes well for you and your little one.