Family & friends vs In/Out

[Seabag]

My OP is slightly tongue in cheek, as I've got a life to get on with

BUT, as shaunag points out, there's often darker divisions lurking in places

And then there's the cost. Today I learn our stock cost more due to the value of the pound. If this continues at the rate of today I'll be ?26k down on that product alone, which is one or more jobs in our warehouse essentially

And if we have to choose who goes, maybe the 'how did you vote?' question will arise

Horrible reality really

[Seabag]

From the BBC Website

Brexit Brawls

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-36656392/36656392

[Cassius]

rupert james Wrote:

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> As these comments are on a London Forum do you

> think outside of ED people are thinking the same

> thing?

Oh yes - my 79 step-mother who lives in Torbay and who voted remain (as did all of her friends who range in age from 60-103!) cannot talk to her 50 year old son who voted to leave. I think in some ways it's worse for her and for other remainers who are in areas that strongly to leave.

[JohnL]

How times change

I remember at about 8 years old hanging around the polling station telling people to

vote NO whilst being told by our elders that the country needed YES.

[tomskip]

To my knowledge I only know of one member of my family who voted leave. I've never liked 'er and keep contact to the bare minimum anyway. It is very likely to backfire on her because her daughter needs to be able to work freely in the EU; she and her partner are self employed and have worked all over Europe for more than 10 years. Last year they decided to change jobs, settle down and live in the UK to start a family, whilst feeling confident that they could find work all over Europe in the future whenever they needed to. But now, this woman's daughter is planning to marry her Dutch/Australian partner and move to Australia and start her family there. My relative will more or less lose her daughter and future grandchildren. Stupid woman. I find it very difficult to forgive the Brexiters, I have to say.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Why, Tomskip - would she lose her grandchildren? Because she's moving to Australia?

[tomskip]

Yes, I mean lose the chance to play much of a part in their lives.

[Seabag]

I thought my fury would subside and I'd get to some kind of balanced place over this

But quite the opposite I'm saddened to admit

Maybe it's my parent/child natural bias that's making me blow-steam

[jaywalker]

Boris said people like me who are weeping are like those who wept for Diana.

I think he is wrong.

[malumbu]

I had lunch with my sister and brother in law on the Sunday after who were in equal shock/depression/anger as me.

I questioned how my older sister voted expecting to hear 'leave' (coming from Tamworth - sorry this is how I feel) and heard she voted stay but her husband voted leave. I've just spent a week with him in France, I know that he is a xenophobe and has some sense of 'British superiority'. He and his family travel in Europe on holiday and I sense they take in none of the culture. There was an undercurrent of despising the French with the odd stereotypical comment made. I sensed that he hated their food and took in none of their culture. I kept my powder dry but had a big argument after the Wales match that he had trashed our future on what appeared to be having a bit of fun. He just came back with all the arguments of the Brexit campaign in one liners. It was made worse that he'd actually read stuff.

Now this all sounds like me staring down my nose at him and me looking like a snob. Or the London intellectual political classes that he acused me of being ("you lot are just sore losers"). We come from the same area, same background (he went to a grammer shcool, me a scummy comp). I chose to better myself in many ways.

All those that I have vague connections with from my home town/school on Facebook will be going. My Green friends who were part of Jenny Jones leave campaign are no longer friends (there is other stuff here I hasten to add).

Vague contacts from school and my home town on Facebook will all go.

So sad that this has polarised feeling across the country but so be it. I've never never blanked friends for their political views. Came close with one who voted UKIP to stir things up but she also voted to leave so that is that too.

I'll have to work out how to handle my brother in law but it has made me see things how they are.

[New Girl]

I've had to leave Facebook as I'm sick of all the bigoted views. I knew my family was narrowed minded but not that bad. As for the in laws, yet to have that conversation as to why they voted leave.

I'm with Seabag, I thought time would heal but alas, it hasn't. It's made me more angry/upset.

[Passiflora]

Urmm, if you can't rely on family why rely on friends?

[WorkingMummy]

jaywalker Wrote:

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> Boris said people like me who are weeping are like

> those who wept for Diana.

>

> I think he is wrong.

I agree. Very wrong. It was deeply offensive to the families he has left, gripped by anxiety.

[WorkingMummy]

...also the EU did way more good for this country than...Diana? FFS.

[muffins78]

I had my 'closest' friend send me a horrid message when she saw me posting the petition link online. I've not said a word against her views to vote leave, and nor did I engage in any negativity on Facebook etc., but it has been the one time I felt strongly to support something!

I won't fall out with her over it, but it assisted on making a headache into migraine! I can't believe the division this referendum has caused (I will do my utmost not to create a divide in my life)!

It's saddening, the whole thing.

What I can't understand is how the main brexiters outside of London, somewhat may rely on the people in employment and companies in London to pay taxes etc - (I don't need write down the circular effect, do I?) - and now that government revenue may also be lost!!

all we can do is keeping asking for the government to look at what's best for our country - like MPs who have changed camps, so can voters!!

[New Girl]

Passiflora Wrote:

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> Urmm, if you can't rely on family why rely on

> friends?

Never said I did, if you're referring to me that is :). That's why I left Facebook and all other social media other than this forum. I never engaged in arguments with family/friends but got sick of seeing bigoted and racist views.

Did Boris really say that regarding Diana?

[midivydale]

Yes he did, it is vile. And for hundreds of thousands of us this is not just about politics, it is about our future. I dont care where people stand politically but if anyone close to me has voted against the very core makeup of my family, voted against the future security of my son then there is nothing more for me to say to that person. Deleted and gone.

Those are the consequences for families like ours, and yes it is deeply personal. It would be to them too if it was their family, their children.

[WorkingMummy]

Midivydale - I am welling up as I write this - I want to forgive - but I feel the same.

Yesterday, I had to contact my out-voting (conservative working class) mother to ask her for details of her own Irish mother's birth and ancestory, so that I can apply for an Irish passport. So that I can retain the same EU citizenship as my kids and their German speaking father. So that we can stay together as a family in future. Both in the short term and for the next generation of our little family.

My mother asked me. Why do you want to be Irish??

Broke my heart.

Midivydale. I remember when you and I used to connect over in the family room, over the Swedish literature that you grew up with; that my kids read in German here in London with their Swiss/German dad. How simple the world then seemed.

[midivydale]

WM, sent you a PM. I can only pray (and I am not religious) that we can find our way back, through this, to that simple world. I just do not know how.

[????]

If I could try and reassure you.

No-one but the most racist/ant-EU nut job thinks or hope that this will result in some sort of expulsion of EU Nationals. Even EVEN Farage said yesterday that all existing EU Residents should be given permanent residence in the UK now. If (when) that is granted, EU citizens would actually have a more secure status than they had 2 weeks ago when we were members of the EU (as the referendum has demonstrated, that security was 'false').

We are still in the EU and will be for at least 2 years so the picture will become clearer with plenty of time to 'act' rather than over stressing now.

Most British people support existing EU residents being given permanent residence by a very large majority (including the majority of Brexiters)according to a poll at the weekend.

[midivydale]

Farage also claimed that 350 million a week would go to the NHS following Brexit, did he not?

And Theresea May and the rest of the Government including the Prime Minister has refused to reassure existing EU nationals in the UK.

My family and I can simply not afford to "wait it out" for a couple of years

Thank you for your kind words though ?? I appreciate them greatly even if my response seems ranty

[????]

Farage has no part of the decision - i'm just pointing out that if even HE thinks this, it probably reflects the political will and reality of most politicians and the majority of the population!

She's done that as part of the bargaining for Brexit negotiations which is vastly misjudged and much criticized (including by her own party) decision.

I'm just trying to reassure you - equally as well if you decide to 'go' you may regret that as a hasty move in the future.

I completely understand the uncertainty and there's no guarantee, of course, but I really don't think a nightmare scenario for you will come to pass.

[Toffee]

I know I ptreviously stated that I would no longer post. However, I feel I have to. I cannot believe that people are completely destroying family relationships and friendships over this. Please rhink about it. Once bad words have been spoken it can take years to heal a rift, if ever. Come on please Stop this vile. I witnessed 2 young men spitting at an elderly lady in Sainsburys car park yesterday. Have an opinion, of course, but dont stir up hatred towards the elderly. Ageism is no different to racism, likewise calling someone illiterate, thick, xenophobic, racist without proof is totally abusive. Say what you want in reply to my post, youve all had your 2 minutes of fame.now stop your vile, hateful comments and accusations . GOODBYE EDF. Also, I wont apologise for any spelling mistake. Hang, draw and quarter me if you like.

[Doodlebug_Dee]

^^ Toffee, I couldn?t agree with you more.

The full breadth and depth of the propaganda machine so evident, with the extraordinary co-operation and collusion between bodies masquerading as independent.

This has been so divisive.

I accept the vote, but am horrified at the responses. Reading posts ? pitting the rich against the poor, the educated against the so-called non-educated, white against people of colour, London against the rest of the country and worst of all, young against the older generation. So, so many threads.

Just from my own life experience being black and born and brought up in London. Stop giving these racist ignoramuses a platform. There are racist people everywhere, but when you throw around the accusations that all who voted to leave are racists is giving the real racist ignoramuses a platform. Growing up in East London, as a child, I was told to go back to where I came from?. Brick lane was plastered with swastikas. We stood up to this and look at Hoxton now. I?ve been called a N***** in ED about 9 years ago. Should I have left ED because of or feared this ignoramus? No. I still see the people he was with and they are well aware of my views as I told him where to stick his views and he took note. I remember during the London riots, some posters and their reference to black people ?crossing the border? into ED. Somewhat bigoted I thought but the view was tolerated by users.

Other threads - if you hear racist language or abuse, don?t just get on your keyboard, tell the offenders to stop or report it to the police and let them deal with it. I know many people who voted to Leave for many reasons other than the pap that is being peddled in the media and I?m not going to tell them to stick their PhDs and MBAs and cease communication.

What about my Jewish brothers and sisters and the rise in anti-semitism way before this vote. What about the attacks on my innocent asian brothers and sisters due to terrorism long before this vote. The far-right has seen a major surge since the terrorist attacks, not just in relation to the outcome of this vote.

Sadiq Khan stated a few days ago in relation to anti-Semitism in this country, that we as a people need to ?tolerate? each other and each others faith. 'Tolerate' - a word with many negative synonyms. The tone and language has to change to aid solidarity. My mantra that I was brought up on and live by ? 'Respect yourself and respect each other'. My outlook is, if we respected ourselves more and respected each other more (respect each others differences), the world would be a better place.

I write this with a heavy heart. I too no longer wish to be on this forum (short-lived I know). As I said, I accept the vote, but am truly horrified at the responses. But worry not, when you or your elderly parents or grandparent need help in the street, I shalt be trying to ascertain how you voted before I offer to help if in need of assistance.

DD

[Loz]

Doodlebug_Dee Wrote:

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> But worry not, when you or your elderly parents or grandparent need help in the

> street, I shalt be trying to ascertain how you voted before I offer to help if in need of

> assistance.

I'm really hoping you didn't actually mean to write that.