am i being neurotic?

[Saila]

I would genuinely consider myself as a more relaxed-first-time mum than most. Happy to leave the baby with friends/family etc and not overly protective generally however....

...I have just invested in a maclaren push chair (after using a sling for 4 months and the baby is now too heavy) and I have had these horrid visions of dogs attacking the baby whilst walking in the street.

Is this something that eventually passes? Like the fear of dropping him when you walk down the stairs etc

Only I've just walked back from the Goose Green fair and saw a black pit pull coming towards me

The dog was on a lead but as soon as the owner saw me, she started winding up the lead and talking to the dog. She then walked into the road as i passed and the dog was growling at the baby and pulling at the lead

If that dog wasn't on a lead.....

Do we just assume that these dog owners always keep them on a lead? I wasn't really that worried because clearly the owner had the situation under control. However, i keep getting these waves of sickness at the thought of a similar dog not being on a lead

it's making me feel physically sick. He only has a four month old skull. He wouldn't stand a chance.

am i being neurotic?

i've never heard of a dog attacking a baby like that... only in the home etc and they seem to be a rare event

advice welcome

[Claire29]

I wish i could say it does pass but with my 5 year old and 2 year old I still worry about things, that dont happen very often but you do hear in the press every now and then.

With the dogs if you see a dog that doesn't look under control or not on a lead and you feel nervous if possible cross the road, or just stop and wait until they pass. I think it is quite rare for a dog to just attack a baby in the pram i would be more worried if a child/toddler were running around and dog may run over to them, but again i think it is quite rare. I always try to encourage my kids to stroke dogs (when the owners say it's ok to do so) so that they grow up and accept dogs as part of life.

From a personal view I prefer to go to Dulwich Park rather than Peckham Rye because I find the majority of dogs there aren't pitball types which i have seen over at peckham rye, and most of the dog owners i've met at dulwich park are very nice and the dogs are normally well behaved and ok around kids.

[Fuschia]

I agree with Claire. We always pause and stand in front of the buggy if a dog is getting a bit close...

It's not paranoia but just common sense... like as a woman walking alone you tend to avoid men walking the same direction as you and would get a bit nervous if one walked up behind you.. and don't flash your mobile about.. that sort of thing.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I am exactly the same. I have lots of experience with kids via my job and personally.

I liked the safety of a parent facing buggy because it did not matter about dogs as the baby was safely out of harm's way but I too have a maclaren and I am completely paranoid about a dog coming towards my son, as naturally the buggy is on the same level as a dog and completely open. I also have toys on his buggy too, so I am always aware that the colours/noise or my son being loud and wriggly might attract a dog's attention. We have had a few dogs sniff at him as they walk by with their owners ( usually in the park) there was a HUGE rottweiler in Dulwich Park, off his lead, heading towards us, I bumped up on the grass area in order to avoid the dog, the owner shouted at me not to worry, but I thought that was just silly, because no owner can guarantee that their dogs 100% will not switch. The fact the dog was huge, off a lead and no muzzle just freaked me out, I had visions of the dog attacking my son as he just focused on us and was heading towards us.

I have also crossed the road when an elderly man had two dogs on leads, one was a German Shephard, I forgot what the other one was, but I just didn't want them sniffing or being that close to my son on the small pavement.

I also worry about toddlers running about, which can attract a dog's attention. My nieces love dogs but absolutely freak out when they are in the park and a big dog comes running towards them, the dogs are being friendly but the owners should be aware that little kids will find big dogs quite scary.

I do wish the owners would walk their dogs on the grassy areas ( what is the point of taking the dogs to Dulwich park to walk them on the tarmac bit?!) or keep them muzzled if they are off the lead, just to make parents feel safer and the kids know no damage will come to them should a dog get overexcited.

I wished sometimes I had not cancelled my bugaboo bee pram order so I could keep my son parent facing but that is just me being paranoid!!!

[The Nappy Lady]

Totally understand (and we have a dog, plus two children). Some dogs unnerve me even so and also have had a couple come up a slobber or put muddy paws up on buggy - so annoying.

Heidihi - Dulwich Park is tricky because as I understand it dogs are omly allowed off lead on the outside of the path so I tend to walk on the path to ensure she stays on it, or outside it of that makes sense.

I think what others suggest - stopping and standing infront of buggy is a good plan if you are really worried and do try to encourage your toddler to pat friendly dogs - say ones that are out with children etc as the worst thing in my opinion are children who scream/run/generally freak when a dog comes near them - loads of Harris Girls do this and it drives me mad, even if not my kind hearted spaniel Coco.

Oh and I am told if you grab both of a dogs front legs and pull apart you kill them outright, though I pray none of us ever need such knowledge.

I've never heard of a dog attacking a child in a buggy so if it happens it must be very rare but caution is always a good thing, especially with some of the (sadly) untrained bull breeds that are around now.

Molly

ps - Peckham Rye is a lovely park full of lots of lovely dogs and owners....honest!

[Belle]

I feel the same and for peace of mind I carry one of these

I'm told they're harmless but just basically ward the dog off as they emit a high pitched sound which puts them off - have never had to use it but feel better with it as have a bit of a phobia. My mum's partner was bitten whilst out running and now carries one, which is where I got the idea.

[littleEDfamily]

I am a real dog lover. Even love Staffies, but I even I get freaked out my some of the dogs I see out and about nowadays with moronic owners (heidihi, I know the German Shepherd you mean - it's shifty). As lovely as many of the staffie breeds are, the reality is they have very powerful lock jaws and you don't stand much of a chance once they do lock on, so I think a healthy sceptism is necessary and not neurotic.

I tend to avoid Peckham Rye Park as there seems to be a higher concentration of them there. Drives me mad when owners are clearly unable to control their off lead dogs - dogs, in my opinion should only be allowed off the lead if they do what they're told and show no aggression to other dogs or people. Even benign labs and spaniels shouldn't be allowed to bound up to strangers (even though we personally love it when they do). But having said all that, I think as dogs so much a part of our society, we have a duty to help our kids develop a wary affection for dogs and some idea how to behave around them (ie don't bound up to them, poke them, try to be calm etc).

Saila - my instinct is that it is unlikely that a dog would attack a baby in a buggy, but I like the idea of Belle's bit of kit and the standing in front of buggy. Walking around with an pre-schooler, I sometimes feel a bit vulnerable too, but if we have to walk past a dog I don't like the look of, I try to get my daughter to walk confidently next to me, telling her that dog is 'busy' and we shouldnt' disturb him.

[Pickle]

I'm wary of dogs, having been bitten by one (albeit a very small one) when I was a child. However I do my absolute best not to show my fear when I'm with my kids and we try as much as we can to interact with dog owners... my daughter loves dogs so we often approach friendly looking dog walkers and make conversation, pat the dog etc.

We've been going to Peckham Park almost daily for the last 3.25 years and have never had a problem with dogs. I do see people with "scary" looking breeds, but we just ignore them and keep walking. I've never found myself in a position where I'm afraid a dog will attack the kids. I think like everything it's a case of keeping your wits about you and being sensible.

[buggie]

Having worked as a paeds ED nurse for over 8yrs, can I reassure you all that I've never seen a dogbite/history of a child being bitten by any dog attacking them in their buggy, and very few bites from "strange" dogs.

Went on safari last year and we were advised that within the jeep we were seen as a big jeep rather than humans/food. Wonder if a similar thing could be true of babies in buggies. While not wanting to encourage children to pet strange dogs, think installing fear in them about all dogs would be counter productive.

[Belle]

yes, agree about encouraging kids to feel relaxed around dogs. I noticed my little boy was afraid of the dalmation in the florence pub over in herne hill and did my best to show him it was fine, though with limited success. Later on we stayed with friends with a very friendly and placid lab, and whilst he was again afraid, we just made an enormous effort to pat the dog, act naturally around him, etc till eventually he stopped being scared and went through first curiosity (they rubbed noses at one point!) and then basic indifference. My only problem with all this is that I'm extremely allergic (was ok to pat dog in question as was forearmed with antihistamines) and it's quite possible my son will be too apparently, so can only do so much patting! But def like this idea in principle.

Am sure in years to come will have to apply similar plan towards my other phobias eg spiders and moths ie making out am not massively scared of them - not looking forward to that so much!

[The Nappy Lady]

Hey Belle - you might not - my sister used to get her son, aged about 4/5 at the time to put a plastic glass over any spider that wandered into her house, and then he'd have to remove it because she has such a phobia of them.

He's in his 20's now and totally fine with them, so it didn't seem to do him any harm.

On the dog front - my problem is that I have to teach my children to treat dogs with caution, because we had Coco before we had them, they have both grown up with her as part of the family, and she is so sweet tempered - both have used her as a prop/frame when learning to walk, cuddled her, fed her and generally love her and the danger is that they think all dogs can be treated like her, so I spend a lot of time going through the whole thing of not patting dogs you don't know / asking the owner if it is OK etc. etc.

Totally agree with whoever said dogs shouldn't be off lead if the owners can't control them - we always try to be considerate of others, keep her close when passing children who appear nervous, or stop to let them pat her/reassure parents if they seem to want to do that. It is all common sense really, but sadly there are those around who don't behave that way I know. Sometimes it is just that people don't think - I had a lady with a young puppy the other day which was bounding around and nearly knocked my toddler over - not being nasty, just being a bouncy puppy, but I did say to her, in what I hope was a nice way that she really needed to be careful of this and teach the dog not to jump up ASAP because that kind of thing just isn't on.

I think there will always be some 'issues' around parents & children and dogs in the parks because we are the 2 sets who tend to be there the most - come rain or shine etc. but I'd like to think that most of the time we all manage to rub along fairly well (sitting in both camps so to speak I would like to think I see the problem from both sides).

Molly

[jalapeno]

Not at all. My daughter was attacked by a small dog when we were picnicking in Dulwich park when she was just 3 weeks but we /she managed to survive the ordeal with a few scratches thanks to my mum and I now carry a wardrobe pole in the back of my buggy as I do not want to take any chances. This however is a sad story of a boy who was mauled to death by a dog.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8674637.stm

What is it with chavy hooligans & savage dogs. I've seen a couple around East Dulwich and they makes my skin crawl!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

This is a good readKids and Dogs Blimey!! Three weeks old!! That must have been so scary. I am glad you are all ok x

[Trish]

Saila, I'm so glad you raise this question. I thought it was just me!! I have seriously been considering going to the police station to ask them exactly what I do if a dog does attack my daughter. I genuinely don't know but good tips on here! I'm very pleased to hear I'm not the only one preoccupied with this. My little one doesn't need a buggy now but is terrified of dogs so kind of clings to me if one comes anywhere near her. I only tend to get nervous if it is a dog off the lead with an owner who looks totally incapable of controlling it.

Jalapeno - what did your mum do to rescue your daughter?

[jalapeno]

we were so shocked because it was completely unprovoked and happened so quickly but my mum managed to give it quite a strong blow with her hand, it was scared to return and the owners quickly picked it up wanting to make a dash before muttering sorry!

yes, thanks we're all ok now but that pole goes everywhere my daughter goes!

[jalapeno]

and thank god it was the cuddly,cute, small type. I always wonder what if it had been a pit bull or a rottweiller..

[siobhanleighhunt]

sorry to add to everyone fears, but thats what I'm about to do. I had an incident in the rye recently when my 2 yr old who was playing with a hoola hoop (not the crisps but the real thing!) had a questionable dog come bounding up out of nowhere and started tearing at the hoop trying to get it off her. Luckily she just froze and I managed to swoop her up (with my other baby in sling) and remove her from the immediate threat. There was no owner in sight; he comes idling up a few moments later and just snears at me. I was probably shaking for about 15mins after. And I love dogs, brought up with them, and my kids love dogs too and I don't expect anything to change that affection. But...it SO nearly happened to us. It didn't... on this occassion but i feel very very strongly that this is something waiting to happen. Its the owners not the dogs who are the problem to a certain extent, but nonetheless some dogs in our local parks pose a real threat to our kids. I would really like to do something about this huge problem - i don't know what to do but does anyone feel the same? does anyone have ideas?

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I already contacted someone with regards to this and they said at the moment it is a grey area to fine owners who have their dogs off a lead in the areas where the signs are up stating that dogs must be kept on a lead, and that their wardens cannot actually issue fines.

There is a dog exercise area around most parks so why they cannot let them off the lead there and make sure they are on a lead in other parts of the park, I don't know. I would not even mind if they were off the lead but had a muzzle on, at least that way you know they won't do any serious damage with a muzzle on.

My sister had a little boy she was looking after in his buggy at Rye park and a dog that was off his lead just kept growling at the little boy, My sister was very scared because the dog obviously felt threatened by the little boy, so my sister had to move out of the way sharpish and leave the park.

[buggie]

jalapeno Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This however is a sad story of a boy who was

> mauled to death by a dog.

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8674

> 637.stm

>

> What is it with chavy hooligans & savage dogs.

> I've seen a couple around East Dulwich and they

> makes my skin crawl!

The case you link to really doesn't have much bearing on the concerns raised in this thread, apart from creating more fear in those expressing concern on this thread.

It does though reinforce the point I made earlier that stranger dog attacks are very rare - if anyone can't follow the link and has only seen Jalapeno's description, this links to the story of the child attacked and unfortuately killed by his uncle's (illigal dog) while at his Nan's - not (if some were worried) a random attack on a child in a park as has been talked about on here.

[Huggers]

This is a very scaremongering thread about one of the many possible but extremely unlikely things that can happen to your child, if I may say so.

Most of these awful dog stories you hear, like awful child abuse stories, happen within the childrens own family and home.

Peckham Rye is a very safe park for both dogs and children as regular users will know.

[The Nappy Lady]

Well said Huggers - lived here 15 years, had dogs for 11 and kids for nearly 6 and never seen or heard of an attack locally.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but really don't feel comfortable with the thought of people getting paranoid about this. As Buggie posted earlier, even having worked in paeds Emergency Dept for 8 years she's never seen a child that's been attacked whilst in the pushchair, and I think that says a lot.

Agree that there are some scary looking dogs, and negligent owners around here, but if you think of how many people (i.e. children and dogs) use the park every day, if there was a really BIG issue with this, or dog attacks of any kind we would all be hearing about it in the press, and on this forum.

If as parents we get to frightened, the children will pick up on it, and so potentially will the dogs, and that can only be a bad thing.

Molly

[jalapeno]

I come from a pet loving family and despite being bitten by dogs in the past hasn't put me off loving them. We were casually relaxing on the grass and before I knew this little dog was over my three week old baby and I'm sorry if my post comes across as scaremongering. I just wanted to share the experience as I never have been shocked by dogs to that extent till it happened to me and wanted to assure the originator of this thread and others who've had similar experiences they're not alone in feeling slightly apprehensive when around dogs - is this wrong? I was very late in springing to my feet(post birth), had my mum not been there I still wonder what might have happened. I posted the link as I thought it was appropriate seeing we're talking about dogs attacking children - babies/ toddlers disregarding where they may take place. I can see why this thread would offend certain dog owners but had there been a fatality it would be a different story.

[The Nappy Lady]

Jalape?o,

not attacking any of the individuals or posts, as I said attacks do happen, but the OP was about whether dogs are prone to attack babies in pushchairs.

Im sorry for what happened to you, it sounds very scary.

Thankfully the attacks that do happen are still relatively rare - not that it means it is OK, I just don't think we should all start panicking every time a dog approaches us or our children. As I said before, if adults are scared children often pick up on it, and if they then run away or scream a vicious dog is more likely to attack.

Molly

[Saila]

hello

I've only just realised this thread was still going today. I had been genuinely relieved to hear about the local nurse in the paeds department who had not encountered such an incident to date. That was enough for me.

I also liked the comment about buggies potentially being protective (as they make the baby look *bigger*, like when we're in a car on safari etc). It made absolute sense.

I think i'll always be wary but I feel reassured by what's been said here.

So the thread has been really useful for me and i'm sure it has others too.

As for those poor one off incidents when something does go wrong, this post has been read nearly 600 times so one shocking incident (sorry to hear about what happened jalapeno - awful) seems to be a one off and although horrific,it appears to be highly unusual.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

My dog has worked out that toddlers wave about food and frequently drop it from prams. He is very keen around prams but just for the potential goodies, not the children!