Please - no more whinging about the referendum result

[JoeLeg]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blah Blah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > And I thought lies around immigration that may

> > have led to a mentally vulnerable man murdering

> an

> > MP equally diplorable.

>

> Don't be silly blah blah. There is no causal link

> here no matter how Remain tried to create one. The

> man was unfortunately mentally unstable.

Again, can you provide any links to anything to back that up?

[Blah Blah]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blah Blah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > And I thought lies around immigration that may

> > have led to a mentally vulnerable man murdering

> an

> > MP equally diplorable.

>

> Don't be silly blah blah. There is no causal link

> here no matter how Remain tried to create one. The

> man was unfortunately mentally unstable.

He was also involved with Britian First who two weeks before the murder told members that any 'muslims in offical positions, like MPs and Mayors were now enemies of the state'. I think it's clear where his motivation lay and why he selected his local MP. She had publically worked for taking Syrian refugees. You have no way of knowing either if Jo Cox' active local campiagining for remain is what provoked his interest in her. So best not to make assumptions about her murder either way eh - or make claims that the remain camp used her murder for gain when they didn't as well.

[Blah Blah]

And of course there is that thing isn't there. That a Brtish MP is murdered by a white British man, and he's mentally unstable. Far right ideaology couldn't possibly have played a part.

But a Black muslim convert murders a soldier in Greenwich, and he's evil, and all of islam is at fault.

[heartblock]

That's ok Keano, taste is a very personal thing. I suppose I should have said that I found it distasteful, but you are completely within your rights to not think bringing up Jo's murder was in poor taste.

[Blah Blah]

It was in poor taste heartblock. He used it to shed fault on the remain camp, yet they never did what he accuses them of. He could have picked countless ways to criticise the remain campaign, but he chose that one.

[heartblock]

Yea I know Blah blah, it is of course poor taste, but let's face it - anyone who brought up that awful murder as a 'decent' argument about why we shouldn't be 'whinging' is highly unlikely to listen to any alternatives to their own beliefs with an open mind.

[keano77]

In reply to etta166

I agree that Brexit is not necessarily inevitable (although the UK would be a laughing stock if we went cap in hand a la Cameron to the EU to say we've changed our mind)

Next year Hollande is likely to be out of a job and Angela's position is looking shaky. We might get new players in positions of power in the EU who decide they cannot keep framing EU rules for the benefit of Germany and France and maybe the little people have genuine concerns.

In such circumstances the Uk could agree to stay in a reformed EU with head held high and in the knowledge that the bravery of the U.K. Electorate in voting leave helped liberate Europe.

All the more reason to delay activating Article 50. The British people are now calling the shots. If the EU says it takes up to 7 years to negotiate a trading agreement why not say ok once we're happy with your trading agreement proposal then we'll activate Article 50

[keano77]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That's ok Keano, taste is a very personal thing. I

> suppose I should have said that I found it

> distasteful, but you are completely within your

> rights to not think bringing up Jo's murder was in

> poor taste.

Ah, I now understand your point and see why you might find it in poor taste. I thought Bryan Appleyard's article on this very point interesting in today's Sunday Times though. Worth a read.

[JoeLeg]

So no, you're not going to provide any links to back up your assertions that the Remain camp hijacked Jo Cox's murder.

Ok then, I'm going to bed.

[Blah Blah]

He ignored my comments too Joe (conveniently). Bedtime for me too.

"anyone who brought up that awful murder as a 'decent' argument about why we shouldn't be 'whinging' is highly unlikely to listen to any alternatives to their own beliefs with an open mind."

Agreed heartblock.

[uncleglen]

He could be referring to this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/20/leader-of-pro-eu-campaign-accused-of-morally-unacceptable-plot-t/

(the cannabis addled his brain I daresay)

[Loz]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> He could be referring to this

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk

> (the cannabis addled his brain I daresay)

From the article:

According to the tape recording, which was posted on the right wing Guido Fawkes? website, Mr Straw said: ?We need to recognise that people have been pulled up short by Jo Cox?s death.?

He added: ?It is now time to make a very positive case for why we want to be in the European Union to? set out the risks that we face if we leave, but to call out the other side for what they have done to stir division and resentment in the UK.?

Doesn't quite match the accusation, does it?

[????]

The world is in awe? le pen, Trump and various right wing Europeans is not the world. Most of the world is thinking what the f*ck have they done.

[nxjen]

I'm wondering whose bright idea it was to hold the referendum at the same time as the Euros, at a time when feelings of national identity run high.

[shaunag]

There are certain things that there just shouldn't be referenda on. Like this one. it was utterly stupid, irresponsible, disgraceful, you name it. britain is a laughing stock, but more than that, the British have caused global financial instability, and losses. As well as igniting extremism in the UK, the whole world are totally pissed off with the British for messing things up for everyone.

Keano you haven't seen the start of the whingeing...

[Loz]

[robbin]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Blah Blah Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > And I thought lies around immigration that

> may

> > > have led to a mentally vulnerable man

> murdering

> > an

> > > MP equally diplorable.

> >

> > Don't be silly blah blah. There is no causal

> link

> > here no matter how Remain tried to create one.

> The

> > man was unfortunately mentally unstable.

>

> Again, can you provide any links to anything to

> back that up?

Personally I was offended by this use of Jo Cox's death by David Cameron in his Twitter account (on the day the Leave vote was said by the polls to be ahead for the first time):

David Cameron Verified account 

‏@David_Cameron

Jo Cox's strong voice in the campaign to remain in the EU will be badly missed. Her final article, published today: https://www.facebook.com/StrongerInCampaign/posts/1196877127019276 ?

Maybe unlike you guys I am particularly sensitive about politicians trying to weedle a bit of what they might perceive as an advantage out of someone's murder, but that struck me as extremely unfortunate and for me (rightly or wrongly) suggestive of someone who would stoop at nothing to try to win and save his own skin.

And before you start ranting - I voted to remain. But I am far from unhappy with the result, despite all the hysterical nonsense and false facts and hyperbole being bandied about. I think long term we may well be better off. Time will tell I suppose. One thing is for sure, defeatist hysteria isn't going to help in any way at all.

[robbin]

Also, on that note, for example people whining on about how the economy has crashed is just errant nonsense. We are still EU members with full access to the single market. We have not even yet given notice of leaving so nothing has actually happened to the economy yet (good or bad).

If any of you are referring to the FTSE market then I suggest you get a life and start looking at reality. 7 days ago (i.e. before the vote) the FTSE 100 opened at 6021. This morning it opened at 6049. 28 points higher than a week ago, so it was up on the week of the Brexit vote, not down. Yes it went down on Thursday as speculators cashed in (in fact I did ok on some short positions - in a very moderate way) and profits were taken from the FTSE's earlier inflated position, but really - they are markets - what do you think they are!! You can't look at one day's fall (actually, in this instance a few hours in one day) and start running around talking about the economy taking a hit! Well, you can, but if you do, don't expect your opinion to be taken seriously by anyone with more than a passing familiarity with the true facts, or economic principles.

[JohnL]

robbin Wrote:

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> Also, on that note, for example people whining on

> about how the economy has crashed is just errant

> nonsense. We are still EU members with full

> access to the single market. We have not even yet

> given notice of leaving so nothing has actually

> happened to the economy yet (good or bad).

>

> If any of you are referring to the FTSE market

> then I suggest you get a life and start looking at

> reality. 7 days ago (i.e. before the vote) the

> FTSE 100 opened at 6021. This morning it opened

> at 6049. 28 points higher than a week ago, so it

> was up on the week of the Brexit vote, not down.

> Yes it went down on Thursday as speculators cashed

> in (in fact I did ok on some short positions - in

> a very moderate way) and profits were taken from

> the FTSE's earlier inflated position, but really -

> they are markets - what do you think they are!!

> You can't look at one day's fall (actually, in

> this instance a few hours in one day) and start

> running around talking about the economy taking a

> hit! Well, you can, but if you do, don't expect

> your opinion to be taken seriously by anyone with

> more than a passing familiarity with the true

> facts, or economic principles.

The Economy is all about what Speculators think about the future.

If things are crashing they think the future is not good.

But give it a few weeks and we'll see - I have fears.

[kford]

I'm going to keep whingeing, thanks.

Not about the result - it is what it is - but about the ignorance of the people who voted for it, and who will now be among the first to suffer its consequences.

[robbin]

Brilliant kford. I'm sure you are more intelligent/principled than those ignorant inbreds. Careful you don't get a stiff neck looking down on them from so high up!

[robbin]

John L said

"The Economy is all about what Speculators think about the future.

If things are crashing they think the future is not good."

But this was exactly my point! The FTSE went up last week - it hasn't crashed! That's not to say it might not do so some time, of course it might, but my point is that some people are hysterically saying it HAS when it hasn't! This is not a matter of opinion - the FTSE index is published data!

It's fine to say I think in future there might be problems. To say oh look the economy has tanked (meaning the FTSE) is not - because it hasn't.

[DulwichFox]

Brexit Thursday

Fri. ? water turned into blood; fish died. ...

Sat ? frogs. ...

Sun ? biting insects and wild animals. ...

Mon ? livestock disease and boils. ...

Tue ? fiery hail. ...

Wed ? locusts. ...

Thu ? darkness.

The following week is expected to calm with periods of warm sunshine.

Foxy

[Blah Blah]

Robbin, the FTSE may have gone up slightly, but UK buiness are 14% down, the pound is a third down, and ?100bn losses have been made. You are the one that needs to understand that FTSE trading is business done accross the world. When you look at performance of UK business on the markets it is all down.

[Azira]

Trading was suspended in Barclays, RBS and Taylor Wimpey today. Easyjet is in trouble too.

Robbin, I appreciate that it is difficult to get a grasp of what is going on with the financial markets as a whole if you're not regularly immersed in the area, but please appreciate that we genuinely are facing serious economic consequences right now. I've explained why repeatedly on this forum.

This is not an ideological position based on euroscepticism or Europhilia - this is the inevitable consequences based on the fact the markets know the structural impact of leaving the EU. The banks know this and are looking to get out of Dodge.

You may have been told by Brexiteer campaigners or certain portions of the media that this was propaganda. To people used to two different political parties exaggerating potential doom if you don't pick them, I can understand why you might be inclined to believe the advice that supports your own desires. This is not propaganda. The markets don't care about democratic deficits and impact of immigration, whether we are culturally richer together or not. The markets care about whether they will be able to trade in the EU or not, and whether there is a risk of systemic financial failure.