Please - no more whinging about the referendum result

[keano77]

We live in a democracy. If the majority vote results in a decision we don't agree with we have to accept that fact.

Please, no more childish petitions or questioning the result. If youngsters, Londoners and the Scottish voters had turned out in greater numbers Remain would have won.

If these people can't be bothered to get out of bed or brave a bit of rain don't blame 17.4m people.

Enough is enough. What whingers seem to be missing here is the world is in awe of The UK for such a brave defence of democracy/sovereignty in the face of such vested interests.

[Jeremy]

Good luck with that one keano

[jaywalker]

Hi keano,

Please could you explain what you mean by the expression 'democracy'?

Ideally, you might place your explanation in the context of the central genealogies of the concept by those who have spent lifetimes thinking about it, for example John Dunn (search in Amazon: Dunn, democracy).

[heartblock]

I'll 'whinge' as much as I want to thanks and apart from Trump and Le Pen..... Who is in awe of the stupid out vote based on lies.

[keano77]

Hi Jaywalker,

Without getting into the realms of political philosophy, more than 45m registered to vote in the referendum after a two day extension for late registrants. Around 11.3m of those registered didn't or were unable to vote for whatever reason.

Scotland's turnout was disappointing. The 18-35s vote was disappointing. The turnout in London was disappointing.

To say the result is undemocratic/unfair etc is naive. If you want to blame anyone blame Remain supporters in the above categories.

[Blah Blah]

Yep, I too will use my 'democratic' right to free speech in a public forum when I like Keano, or did we have a referendum on that too?

[keano77]

heartblock Wrote:

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> I'll 'whinge' as much as I want to thanks and

> apart from Trump and Le Pen..... Who is in awe of

> the stupid out vote based on lies.

Anyone who understands the idea of democracy.

[JoeLeg]

keano77 Wrote:

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> heartblock Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I'll 'whinge' as much as I want to thanks and

> > apart from Trump and Le Pen..... Who is in awe

> of

> > the stupid out vote based on lies.

>

>

> Anyone who understands the idea of democracy.

Surely part of living in a democracy is the right to moan about the outcome of you lose?

Especially if it's a close run thing, and it looks like those who won lied to do so?

Or is there a rule that says if you lose you have shut up? Didn't think this was liars poker...

[Loz]

Sorry, but I am not going to sit idly whilst Boris and co drive this country over a cliff.

[etta166]

Are you so sure that you understand how democracy works in the UK?

The U.K. has a parliamentary democracy. The electorate send representatives to parliament, and they make laws on our behalf. The act of Parliament that permitted this referendum did not incorporate legislation that made the result of the referendum binding. It is, therefore, advisory.

It would be completely democratic, within the rules of the U.K. democracy, for parliament to vote on, and reject, invoking Art 50 of the Lisbon treaty. It might not be popular, it probably would be morally wrong. But it would be democratic.

Petitioning your MP, or whinging as you put it, about a decision that you don't agree with is also a large part of how U.K. democracy works.

If we lived in a plebiscite democracy, or had proportional representation, then you would be correct that a minority simply has to accept a majority vote. But that is not the case here.

[keano77]

Hi JoeLeg

It was a very ugly campaign and both sides should be ashamed of their exaggerated figures and spin (some may say lies).

Personally, I thought the hijacking of Jo Cox's tragic death for Remain ends trumped any ?350m a week fib.

[Blah Blah]

And I thought lies around immigration that may have led to a mentally vulnerable man murdering an MP equally diplorable.

[keano77]

Loz Wrote:

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> Sorry, but I am not going to sit idly whilst Boris

> and co drive this country over a cliff.

We're all worried about the future Loz. Freedom is a scary prospect. You're not going to stand idly. Fair enough. What are you going to do then and contribute to a new dynamic Britain, whinge and talk Britain down or help unleash the potential?

[heartblock]

In very poor taste Keano, very poor taste, but I support your democratic right to say it.

[JoeLeg]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Hi JoeLeg

>

> It was a very ugly campaign and both sides should

> be ashamed of their exaggerated figures and spin

> (some may say lies).

>

> Personally, I thought the hijacking of Jo Cox's

> tragic death for Remain ends trumped any ?350m a

> week fib.

Well, I do say lies. You can of course disagree, and you're free to call it a 'fib', though I'm also free to say that when you allow the electorate to think that (and we all now they did), it goes a bit beyond a fib.

But then that's the beauty of a democracy, we can hold differing opinions and talk about it, even after the event.

I didn't seech hijack the tragic murder of Jo Cox anywhere; can you provide a link to anything backing that up?

[JoeLeg]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Sorry, but I am not going to sit idly whilst

> Boris

> > and co drive this country over a cliff.

>

> What are you going to do then and

> contribute to a new dynamic Britain, whinge and

> talk Britain down or help unleash the potential?

Openly criticising something we disagree with an analysing what's happened is an important part of working out what we think should happen. I don't see Loz talking Britain down (a phrase often used by people when they want to accuse someone of a lack of patriotism or generally not supporting the country; I'm sure that's not what you meant?), looks to me like he's wanting to get it back on what he sees as the right path.

Again, that's democracy for you. Just because we disagree with you doesn't automatically make us wrong. And vice versa.

[heartblock]

Although I am excited about my new found freedom in a new and dynamic Britain...cool! When does the fun start?

[rendelharris]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Personally, I thought the hijacking of Jo Cox's

> tragic death for Remain ends trumped any ?350m a

> week fib.

Didn't happen. People like Katie Hopkins tried to claim it happened, but it just didn't. The only hijacking of that tragic incident was from the extreme right trying to say it had been hijacked. You should be ashamed even to make that claim.

[Tigres Pride]

I would guess the "fun" has already started heartblock!

Apathy appears to have gone out the window and people are taking action, on whichever side, and not just in GB but in

other EU countries too.

[keano77]

etta166 Wrote:

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> Are you so sure that you understand how democracy

> works in the UK?

I hope so

>

> The U.K. has a parliamentary democracy. The

> electorate send representatives to parliament, and

> they make laws on our behalf. The act of

> Parliament that permitted this referendum did not

> incorporate legislation that made the result of

> the referendum binding. It is, therefore,

> advisory.

Agreed

>

> It would be completely democratic, within the

> rules of the U.K. democracy, for parliament to

> vote on, and reject, invoking Art 50 of the Lisbon

> treaty. It might not be popular, it probably would

> be morally wrong. But it would be democratic.

Agreed if Parliament voted to rescind prior parliamentary agreements on EU legislation, Treaty of Rome, Maastricht etc. Constitutionally, Parliament cannot be bound by laws made by previous Parliaments.

>

> Petitioning your MP, or whinging as you put it,

> about a decision that you don't agree with is also

> a large part of how U.K. democracy works.

Agreed. Although you may be wasting your time.

>

> If we lived in a plebiscite democracy, or had

> proportional representation, then you would be

> correct that a minority simply has to accept a

> majority vote. But that is not the case here.

See replies above.

On your last paragraph, Sorry, you are wrong here. The rules for this referendum were quite clear. yes or no, the most votes win. Most people understood that. Yes, constitutionally the result is advisory. Whoe betide the politicians, like David Lammy, who decide 17.4m voters are wrong and they know what's best for them

[shaunag]

No thank you keano

[keano77]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> And I thought lies around immigration that may

> have led to a mentally vulnerable man murdering an

> MP equally diplorable.

Don't be silly blah blah. There is no causal link here no matter how Remain tried to create one. The man was unfortunately mentally unstable.

[keano77]

heartblock Wrote:

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> In very poor taste Keano, very poor taste, but I

> support your democratic right to say it.

Sorry don't understand the poor taste point.

[etta166]

keano77 Wrote:

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>

> On your last paragraph, Sorry, you are wrong here.

> The rules for this referendum were quite clear.

> yes or no, the most votes win. Most people

> understood that. Yes, constitutionally the result

> is advisory. Whoe betide the politicians, like

> David Lammy, who decide 17.4m voters are wrong and

> they know what's best for them

The rules of the referendum were quite clear. It is advisory. Yes or no, and the vote show the popular feeling on the issue. David Cameron said that he would go with the majority vote, but now he has backtracked and resigned. His successor and Parliament are not bound to act on the result. It might be political suicide not to, but it is not undemocratic.

I personally don't think that the U.K. has any other option now, and I think that there is no going back, even though by the time Brexit could in two years or more, the majority of the electorate may well not still want it to happen.

But Brexit is not inevitable even after the current result, and trying to stop it happening is not in any way undemocratic, as explained above.

[keano77]

shaunag Wrote:

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> No thank you keano

???