Primary Schools in East Dulwich

[Alan Dale]

poindexter Wrote:

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> Most strange as most under 10s dont

> have many informed opinions on religion and nor

> should they.

By the age of 10 I had suffered 6 years of indoctrination at school but you are right I had been very badly informed.

I see your point though get bums on seats in first- the religous brainwashing comes after.

[Ted Max]

Exavtly Alan, "Give me the boy at six", as the Jesuits liked to say, "and I will give you the inveterate poster mixing it up on neighbourhood internet forums". Or something like that.

[Alan Dale]

Surely the only reason they ask for Church attendance rather than belief is because it is difficult to find an objective measure for belief. You might even argue that attendance correlates with conviction.

[oggers]

I'm sorry, but what sort of message does it send out to kids if you cynically go to church to get them into a particular school. I have a 1 year old daughter and I refuse to teach her that kind of lesson.

[Spangles30]

Yes you are right to say that oggers. However, I am a regular mass go-er and would be rather put out if my children didn't get in to St Anthony's in Barry Rd.

I am pro Faith schools, but totally see why people are against them. I personally would like to see PRIVATE schools abolished before faith schools; they are the true inequitable institutions.

Best primary schools FOR RESULTS are Fairlawn (Honor Oak) and St Anthony's Barry Rd SE22. Goodrich and Heber languish rather behind.

[Asset]

why on earth would you go to church if you don't believe in god or are not religious? Oh yes, hypocrisy.......

I've got better ways to spend my Sunday mornings thanks.

I take it you did the church thing Poindexter.

[chuff]

Most of the CofE schools only allocate half the places to regular churchgoers and the rest is down to how close you live. unless you were completely opposed to your children being exposed to the church, why wouldn't you send them there, if it was a very good school and very close to where you live?

I am an athiest and am not likely to change my views but I am happy for my kids to learn about everything around them and make their own choices later in life. I would be very surprised if either of them decided to join the 'happy clappers' but if they did, then that would be fine with me.

Also my eldest has moved from a non church school in year 2 when we moved house and religion seemed to play just as big a part in everyday as the CofE school.

Just my opinion.

[Alan Dale]

Spangles30 Wrote:

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I personally would like to see

> PRIVATE schools abolished before faith schools;

> they are the true inequitable institutions.

I agree that they should both be abolished. The order they get abolished is not significant.

That said in the absence of adequate state schools I have more respect for people who are honest about their immorality and just pay their way out of trouble than I do for those who start pretending they believe in fairies and the like.

[bellenden22]

I went to Dog Kennel Hill about 10 yrs ago and absolutely loved it.

Definately the best in the area I would say. Alot of my friends went to Dulwich Hamlet and Dulwich infants and then charter and they are also quite good. But a lot of East dulwich is "too far" away for Charter.

Unfortunatly the amazing headteacher at DKH is leaving by the end of the year but I'm sure she'll be replaced with an equally good headteacher.

They have great instruments you can learn, good facilitys, good Parents association, great school fairs, good teachers. Loads of kids with different backgrounds who speak different languages which I think is important. I loved it and will definately be sending my children there.

Good luck.

[poindexter]

Asset Wrote:

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>

> I have no interest in getting into a theological

> dicussion as that has already been done on here.

Hmmmm

Alan, so glad that someone got my point. You put it very well. Bums on seats, exactly.

I didnt go to church to get my child into a school as in my day it didnt seem necesary. I would however have no problem going now if it ensured a place for my child at my chosen school and have occasionally been known to cross the threshhold of my local church as I feel, as I mentioned before, that it is part of our tribal identity and you get to meet neighbours that you wouldnt normally.I'm an atheist and disagree with private and faith schools which is why i see no problem in attending church as to not do so(in the context of getting my child into school)would thereby allow churchgoers (who might be believers or not) to get a place instead of my (hypothetical) child. Which I believe would be wrong.

Presumably Asset didnt go to his/her childs Christmas carol service as that would have been hypocritical. And in fact the child singing the songs would be hypocritical and anyone whos ever attended a church funeral or wedding would be hypocritical unless they believe in God.

[Alan Dale]

OK Poindexter. I guess you are just being pragmatic.

As I said, I'd rather pay than pretend to believe in God but that assumes that I can afford it at the time. If not then maybe I'll be taking my tambourine down from the shelf.

Realistically though I think that if I couldn't afford private and the only state options involved the whole family sniggering in a pew at the back of the Church then I might just move the family to Lincolnshire and downsize to a studio flat above the Silver Buckle and a superbike for the weekly commute.

Time will tell...

[Brad]

How about Fairlawn? I'm yet to meet an unhappy parent. It's got an inspiring headteacher too. Perhaps worth a look.

[chuff]

Fairlawn is fantastic, my kids went there before we moved and I don't have anything bad to say about it.

[Brad]

There you go!!

So did you move out of the area Chuff?

[chuff]

Yes, We were living in forest hill at the time. We only changed schools because the new school was on our doorstep and we are trying not to use our car unless absolutely necessary.

[catgirl]

Attending a wedding or a funeral when you don't believe in god is in no way a comparison to suddenly taking up regular church attendance in order to get your child into a 'good' school.

Possibly choosing to get married in church is but when you attend a wedding you are a guest - the choice of venue is up to the couple getting married (or family of the deceased in the case of a funeral) and you attend the chosen venue out of a desire to witness the ceremony, as they have wished you to. By attending someone's wedding or funeral you are in no way implying that you share the beliefs of the church, just showing respect to the beliefs of the people whose ceremony it is.

I am an agnostic and don't go to church but attended my grandmother's funeral recently at a church. She was a very comitted christian, church evey week, prayers, strong belief and christian morals and it meant everything to her for her funeral to be in church. Should I not have gone then for fear of being hypocritical?

Sorry, but your ridiculous generalisations in order to justify what most people do belive to be a shaky and hyporitical position (ie attending church just for a school place) are just not relevant.

[cookie]

Blimey, a few people getting their knickers in a twist about church attendance faith schools.

In my humble opinion, churches and church goers have nothing to complain about. You get a captive audience to sell your faith to for a year or so. If at the end of that time parents don't wish to continue attending that's entirely up to them. Think of it as an opportunity to spread the word :)

[catgirl]

my knickers were twisted by the ridiculous statement saying that people who disagree with attending church just to get into a school ought also to disagree with attending a wedding or funeral in church. Not by church attendance faith schools per se (although I agree they should be abolished)

Quite an interesting article here from a while back in the Guardian. Mentions Dulwich as one of the case studies in fact.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/faithschools/story/0,,1820138,00.html

[Asset]

"Presumably Asset didnt go to his/her childs Christmas carol service as that would have been hypocritical. And in fact the child singing the songs would be hypocritical and anyone whos ever attended a church funeral or wedding would be hypocritical unless they believe in God."

If I may refer you to a previous post of mine on this thread you will see where I stand on that point. However in answer to the assertion that it is hypocritical to go to a church wedding or funeral if you don't believe in god, that is like saying it is hypocritcal for a vegetarian to join their meat-eating friends for dinner in a steak house and is a specious argument as there is no pretence involved in either case.

I have never said I can't get into the spirit of a church service being a non-religious person, just that I would not choose to do it every weekend and personally, I would feel hypocritical if I did it to get my child into a school.

You are being awfully defensive Poindexter.

[chichirara]

chuff Wrote:

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> Fairlawn is fantastic, my kids went there before

> we moved and I don't have anything bad to say

> about it.

Thats what I say it was great for my kids and robin Bosher is wonderful and it was designed by architect that did RFH which I love!

[Erno's Dad]

Maybe I'm a bit late to enter into this discussion, but I feel Oggers deserves an answer to his original question alongside all the angry argument about Belief in God and Whether Goodrich Teachers are a Law unto Themselves. Being one of these maverick renegades myself, I'm flattered by this comment and hereby vow to leave the profession as soon as "Do Exactly As You Are Told" appears in my job description.

The truth is, Oggers, that there are lots of good primary schools in East Dulwich, one of a number of factors that make it a great choice among places to move to. Goodrich, in my opinion, is most definitely one of these schools.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Even staff!

[Keef]

Good for you Erno's Dad.

And Catgirl, you're spot on. If someone chooses to get married in the "sight of God", or expresses wishes to have a Christian funeral, that is their choice, and the guests will attend because that person is important to them. It does not mean that the guests have pretensions towards religion.

As far as I'm concerned, attending church to gain a school place is not only hypocritical, but also rather disrespectful to those people who go to church because they have a genuine belief.

[TillieTrotter]

Just to throw a spanner in the works. I ticked the YES I attend church box to get my kids into the local primary school, a blatant lie, but if thats what they want to hear...!

Its a ridiculous criteria, your child should be able to attend its local school. I dont feel like a hypocrite at all.

Hope He isnt reading this.::o

[redrouge]

Well, I went to St Anthony's AND Heber School back in the 90s... I remember when St Anthony's was red and when Heber School had mouldy toilets! That was when the only choice for a 'decent' education in our area was St Anthony's, Heber and Goodrich were considered "rough". I thought Heber was the most terrifying place on earth. To a small four year old, that big brick building is the most intimidating thing in the world. I went to Heber for a year because I was too smart for nursery apparanty (!?) and too young for St Anthony's...

My parents did have catholic faith in the early 90s when I started at St Anthony's, and now, almost 20 years later they send my little brother to the same school as me and my many siblings despite not having a faith anymore. So just because my parents lost faith, does that mean they should take my brother out of school and send him to Goodrich?...

I've had an almost 100% catholic education, despite my parents losing faith in the catholic religon. Yet, I haven't turned out Catholic at all, quite the opposite! I dislike the Catholic Church immensely, St Thomas More church even more... probaly due to my education. I went to an all-girls convent secondary school and had to battle with my teachers because they were convinced I was crazy because I said gay people weren't the root of all evil and refused to do GCSE RE because of what they were saying, it was awful. Yet, I remember my teacher at St Anthony's telling us why Oscar Wilde went to jail and how it was simply awful, and we put on The Selfish Giant at Easter!

But St Anthony's (in my day at least) were quite liberal when it came to religious education - I got more sex ed there then I did at my awful secondary school. I don't remember it being as much as a cruel dictatorship as people often see it as. Although apparantly now it's changed, its a lot more religion and league table based and it's just a shadow of its former glory. My mother is even considering taking my brother out of school and sending him to a different one because its just far too league table based, and it used to be such a creative school (we're an arty-farty family).

But is it good marks in useless SATS that you want for your child (and St A's work those 11 year olds to the ground!) or something... less serious?

And people lie about far worse things then religion and do worse things to get their kids into schools...

And when it comes down to religion, you're going to end up making your own choice eventually. No one is forcing you to believe. It's not brainwashing. Primary school ought to be a lot more fun, because goodness, you spend enough of your life working!

I should probaly stop rambling. Not sure what I'm talking about anymore or what point I'm trying to make exactly. I have to be up in mere hours, but have insomnia...

[Keef]

TT, I think there's a big difference between ticking a box, and actually sitting in church every Sunday pretending you're in to it. We've all lied on application forms, it's part of the fun ;-)