Upsides of Brexit

[malumbu]

Not allowed to call it Champagne. As that has to come from the Champagne area.

And at the same time before you get on your high horses Melton Mowbray pork pies have to come from Melton Mowbray.

Funny how our friends over the water have been much better ar protecting their national idenities. Nowt to do with Brussels. In the Germany World Cup the country insisted that local beers had to be avaialble rather than rolling down and dying as we did in the Olympics. Called big business, and passive consumers. Nowt to do with Brussels.

Your right, I need to get off this site PDQ.

Looking forward to compulsory smoking back in the office and groping younger staff. Back to the good old days eh?

Right, off never to come back

[Loz]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> I'm actually quite a fan of British wine and champagne, and look forward to seeing what will

> give Lambrusco and bad Chenin Blamc a run for its money!

I don't know about bad wine, but British sparkling is quite good as the UK growing areas are roughly on the same latitude as the Champagne region. The region produces quite poor grapes for still wines. All the quality still wines are grown in warmer climes, so really nothing from Britain will ever match the better still wines (climate change notwithstanding).

[Jules-and-Boo]

oh, there was one - EU distinction between Swede and Turnip - as they didn't like the Cornsih calling them both Turnips. They created a ruling against that.

We can now call swede 'turnip' and vice versa.

Not that I use either word very often...but we can if we want.

[aerie]

Seabag Wrote:

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> Chinese wine

>

> Bent bananas

>

> 3kw kettles again

>

> Repeats of Dads Army

Don't tell him, Pike !

[WorkingMummy]

V happy to belittle:

The often openly racist messages of Nigel Farage.

The integrity of Boris Johnson.

The ideology of Gove.

Although strictly speaking, I feel the last of those is a BIG thing to disrespect, not a little thing.

Also. The lack of government now is not the result of the "worst" of "remain". (There is no "remain" just as there is no "leave". Those are just slogans. Not organisations.) Cameron's resignation was inevitable, just look what happened to Salmoned after Scotland said no to his ballot. It was breathtaking for Boris to say it was DC's duty to stay.

Leave spokespeople admitted having no exit plan at least once in live tv debate that I saw BEFORE we voted. It really is beyond me people are shocked.

If you want to blame any one thing, perhaps blame the whole idea of putting an issue like this up for referendum at all. The electorate on both sides is largely uninformed about constitutional law, economics, EU law and sociology. Which is why the electorate is not the government and should never have been asked to issue "advice" to their elected representatives on the political, economic and social infrastructure of the largest land mass of humanity on the globe.

I think Dave, George, Bor, they may have mustaken reality for the debating chamber of the jolly old Oxford Union.

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> no, WM - that's not true. I think we've talked

> about not belittling other's opinions.

>

> So we have racist 'Leave', Super Intelligent

> 'Remain', Lazy 'couldn't make my mind up'.....

>

> let's not start on each other.

>

> If this has pulled out the worst of any side -

> it's the worst of ALL sides - yes, Remain too. We

> now have NO governemt.

>

> That woudl actually help. The fact our PM thought

> it best to run away from responsibility doesn't

> say much, does it.

>

> This is not about immigration (as that covers SO

> many things) it's about the volume of people and

> the pressure on Infrastructure.

>

> This is bordering on hysteria.

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

I think the both overestimated and underestimated the capacity of the electorate to process information about the issue.

[citylover]

The upside? Ooo, so difficult, one has to take a while...democracy back, having a vote that counts, being a sovereign state again. All that pales in comparison though to simply being able to tell Juncker and co to get lost and for it to really mean just that.

[Burbage]

Azira Wrote:

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> I don't think it is remotely helpful to categorise

> the Brexiteers as all being racist/xenophobes,

Quite right. The Brexiters had a whole range of motives. Admittedly, it's not entirely clear what they were, but that could be easily solved.

Our very own Lord Harris of Peckham, for example, whose name adorns the eponymous Academy and several other notable local educational establishments, gave ?50k through one of his companies to the Leave campaign. I'm sure he's no xenophone, and would be be delighted to explain to the students the inclusive and noble reasons behind his apparently successful attempt to deny them the right to live, study and work abroad.

Such a process of engagement might pay other dividends too. For, if the schools sold tickets, it could seriously boost school funds.

[Loz]

citylover Wrote:

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> The upside? Ooo, so difficult, one has to take a

> while...democracy back, having a vote that counts,

Have you considered that, of the top three tiers of UK government, two are unelected and the other is lead by a party that gained 36.8% of the vote?

[JoeLeg]

citylover Wrote:

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> The upside? Ooo, so difficult, one has to take a

> while...democracy back,

Well, you were lied to during the campaign so does it still count?

having a vote that counts,

Again, is a vote based on lies and dissemblance worth having?

> being a sovereign state again.

Which is only worth it if we are better off than we were before. This is he bit which is highly debatable.

All that pales in

> comparison though to simply being able to tell

> Juncker and co to get lost and for it to really

> mean just that.

Well, apart from the fact that it sounds like you voted just so you could stick two fingers up at Europe, we're all still waiting to find out if that's what the government will actually do...

[etta166]

citylover Wrote:

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> The upside? Ooo, so difficult, one has to take a

> while...democracy back, having a vote that counts,

> being a sovereign state again. All that pales in

> comparison though to simply being able to tell

> Juncker and co to get lost and for it to really

> mean just that.

No, democracy is not back. There hasn't been any electoral reform. The first past the post system, unelected second chamber and unelected head of state that would be the country's government after Brexit actually happens is hugely undemocratic.

If you want a vote that will count spy his much ever again, the only choice is to start campaigning for electoral reform. Or move to a swing seat.

As for telling the EU to get lost, only if you're hoping that the UK (or England as it may be in 2 years) won't enter the EEA or any other bilateral agreements with the EU. We have actually just lost the option of expressing a view on new European regulations that have any bearing on our future trade agreements.

And sovereignty, in an ever more globalising world? Every trade agreement, treaty, membership to any multinational body like the WHO, the WTO, UN, NATO etc. requires that we trade off the ability to make sovereign decisions and act in the best interests of multiple nations.

There are upsides, but none that the leave campaigns esposed.

[Jeremy]

Does anyone have any actual real upsides, rather than this bollocks about having our country back, hoovers and English wine...

[WorkingMummy]

It has made me personally realise that the secret pipe dream I had of running a guest house in the South West one day, was always just that, a silly pipe dream.

In other words, it has made me very happy to live in London.

I will of course be dreaming of taking semiretirement in Scotland from now on.

[etta166]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Does anyone have any actual real upsides, rather

> than this bollocks about having our country back,

> hoovers and English wine...

Yes, but I still haven't quite managed to work out how to express them in polished form...

If nothing else, this referendum has exposed just how disenfranchised and alienated over half of the population felt. People voted in the referendum because, at last, their vote would count. People are more politically engaged than ever. It is painfully obvious how little the current set-up in Westminster is concerned about running the country for the majority of people, and how it is really about the personal ambitions of a privileged few.

So, now is the time for reform. Reforming the electoral system so that every vote counts, every single time it is cast. Reforming education so that the electorate can never be sucked into believing such transparent lies again. Reforming taxation and public spending, so we don't have to rely on the EU to fund obvious needs in areas that Westminster wouldn't.

I voted to remain. I still think that would have been the easier option. But I am starting to suspect that it might not be the better option in the long term.

Practically, what can we do? Join the electoral reform society (http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk), join the Green Party, join the Liberal Democrats, campaign for an education system that puts more emphasis on citizenship and critical thinking than on compliance and grammar... I don't really know. But everyone should get up and do something. Anything that makes their vision of a bright and better future more likely to come to pass.

As for immigration, I don't have any good ideas. I would love to see it more open than it is now, and to reach a point were people don't feel threatened by immigration, but see it as a reciprocal boon whereby they could also choose to emigrate and broaden their horizons. I suspect that is a pipe dream.

[Loz]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Does anyone have any actual real upsides, rather than this bollocks about having our country back,

> hoovers and English wine...

The only one I can honestly see (though hasn't happened yet) is the demise of Corbyn as Labour leader and the possibility of actually having an opposition.

But that really isn't enough reward for plunging the entire country into crisis.

[heartblock]

I hoping that etta is right and people get involved in politics and push for reform. There are issues with PR, but at least everyone has a vote that does count.