Anyone facing the prospect of uprooting their family due to the EURef result?

[sb]

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[midivydale]

Come to the lounge, the threads are there.

[sb]

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[midivydale]

Yes, sadly it does.

We are currently in the heartbreaking discussion of what to do next for the future of our family.

[sb]

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[midivydale]

It is so sad, I am heartbroken.When i got here the UK was a warm and welcoming country and I was i was made to feel at home.

It didn't feel like a big move with my EU passport, no bigger than I imagine it would feel like for someone from Yorkshire to move to London. I had the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else. and i have felt very much as part of society.

This has all now changed. I first felt excluded that despite the impact the outcome of the referendum would have on my British child's future, I had no say at all. Despite having paid ALOT of tax, more than most people in fact, for over 15 years.

Fair enough though, I'm not British after all.

After the leave vote, I dont feel welcome at all. Despite paying more tax than most people, I'm being reminded that I should be grateful that I'm allowed to live here, I should be grateful that I get to use the nhs. (I am a huge fan of the nhs. I am grateful, very much so, but I refuse to be told I should know my place). I have loved this country since I was a child. I have paid taxes, volunteered and supported all the local British communities i have ever lived in.

I'm being told that I'm ridiculous to worry about this as no one will get thrown out of the country. But having to even think about this after having felt as very much a part of society for two decades is unsettling and disturbing. We celebrate the Quees birthday, cheer for Murray and I duly put on my England shirt for football. I watch East Enders, hell I even eat a fry up!

The feeling is very difficult to explain, the feeling of all of a sudden having been demoted.

My 4yr old, who is British asked me this morning "why people doesnt want his mummy to live in London?"

It is a tragedy, and of course very very personal.

[bodsier]

The truth is, people in London do want immigration. If you wish to work in Any industry, you must have a good experience and/or a broad knowledge of the trade. How is it that people are allowed to vote with little understanding of the broader issues? Schools insist on science and maths and English, why not politics? How can people vote on really important issues that affect everyone so profoundly, with such little understand of the subject. This was evident when research on the implications of leaving was done AFTER the vote had closed.

One thing that I hope comes from this is that everyone becomes more engaged in Politics, and stop treating it as a no go area. Too often it's seen as skeleton in the room, something you don't engage in when socialising in case you ruffle feathers. Seminars should be taking place in secondary schools rather than just at university, so that people learn how to discuss and engage without being rude, offensive and hostile. That way the vote could have been open to 16 year olds who are most affected by this result.

I feel for families in this situation, you can Apply for dual citizenship if you have children of mixed heritage. That way they can move freely around the EU.

I really feel for those teenagers, especially those who have their exams right now. These kids feel despondent about their Future, and this has heightened their despondency.

If we engage and Unite, and build a United positive resistance, we can use it to resist regressive employment law and severe austerity that will inevitably be imposed upon us. Apparently, a referendum is not legally binding, so maybe the fight to reform the Eu can begin? We have the power, it's about time we recognised that.

[sb]

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[bodsier]

Please don't believe the media when they say that the votes were all about immigration, it was publicly spun from that perspective, but is not the only reason why some voted out. Dreda Say Mitchell had an interesting perspective, as did

Mark Blyth.

http://watson.brown.edu/news/2016/mark-blyth-discusses-brexit.

You won't see that perspective in the general media, it doesn't serve the angle that politicians thrive on, with the help of Murdock, ...divide and rule.

We didn't hear This perspective during the campaigns, one man from Greece talked about what happened to the Greek economy as a result of EU tactics, and was shut down. They didn't want to inform us, and I totally share a feeling of sadness in many ways, but this is helping me to not lose complete faith in humanity. It's not quite what it seems.

[uncleglen]

People will not engage or get involved in politics for long because if you have any kind of real, humane, social conscience you will realise that most politicians, at any level, are egotistical power hungry, megalo-maniacal control freaks....and it will make you sick to your stomach to get involved if you embark on a political path for altruistic reasons- I have been there

My reasons for voting OUT were- we do not need another 750 politicians controlling our lives and all the bureaucracy it drags along with it (the cost of that alone is the same as the amount of money we get back from the EU for Agriculture and Fisheries)- it is an insult to our intelligence- and given the comments by Junckers and the German who warns us to beware the EU 'revenge' I think I am right on that; and the fact that people convicted of heinous crimes have been allowed to stay here by the EU court over-ruling our own legislature.

[bodsier]

Uncleglen, Perhaps your post belongs in the lounge as I think SB would like empathy and hope, not a political wrangle.....having avoided the lounge for that very reason....

[AnneBowers]

My best friend (german) feels like this ... Please don't you are welcom here

[Ellie78]

I really feel for you OP and Midivydale.

We're not under the same pressure but it has made me think very seriously about our future here. I can't really see myself living happily in the kind of UK (well, probably England, NI and Wales) that's on offer here. I've got rights to EU citizenship elsewhere, which should filter down to my son, and I'm applying next week. At least it might give us some options.

But we're not out yet....

[Monkey]

Thanks for starting this thread.

I'm French and married to a uk citizen. I'm applying for residency (and then nationality) as soon as I've got all the paperwork I need. Do have a look at the rules for residency. If you have been here for five years or more, I think, you can apply.

I don't worry about house prices at all, nor the value of the pound. It will even out in the end and you're not going to be chucked out of the country tomorrow and having to make a distress sale.

For me, the worry is a. My job and b. EU friends leaving, and the prospect of London being less multicultural. I'm also enjoying raising a little multicultural Londoner.

[sb]

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[midivydale]

Sb, I agree wholeheartedly. I was in tears on the phone to my dad this morning trying to explain how it feels to have worked your socks off for a country for over a decade, to have born children here, to have campagined for more primary schools, campagined for breast feeding cafes, for equal pay, for lidos and parks. The list goes on and on and on.

I feel crushed, and drained. I genuineley believed that I was part of this country, that this was my home. To find out that really, I do not belong, the division of a "them and us" that I genuinley did not know exisited but has become so evident in the aftermath of this vote has floored me.

The polish girl at the cafe this morning, she wiped away her tears too as we spoke, and hugged and then tried to smile.

[shaunag]

Racism has been around for a very long time. It's based on fear of the Unknown. The greatest leave votes were in areas with the lowest numbers of immigrants, while London, with the greatest proportion of immigrants voted remain. I am Irish, my husband and in laws are Scottish, 2/3 of my kids are British. I've just moved back to Ireland and had my third, so she is Irish. My in laws have lived in England for 35 years. They voted leave. I spent yesterday very sad and in tears several times because I feel rejected by them. My husband doesn't think they realised they were voting against me, our family and our way of life. It's bizarre, because I know immigrants are the reason they voted leave, but they don't count people like me as immigrants. They don't realise they themselves are immigrants into England from Scotland. They don't like the immigrants 'that don't even speak English'. I imagine if I was French with perfect English they would have no problem with me. They are afraid of what they don't know, like all racists. I think this election went the way it did entirely because of racism. But I don't think all racism is spiteful, I think there are many that are that way because they are afraid of the Unknown. But, there has been a shift. The younger, more connected generations are not afraid of different. The majority of them voted remain. They are not fearful the way the older generations are. My relationship with my in laws is seriously damaged, and I don't know if I will ever forgive them, but I also know it's not their fault. Don't let the fear of hatred from others drive you from your home. The majority of London love the beautiful multicultural cosmopolitan place that it is, that is only that way because of immigrants. Take time to heal, be strong and don't let the b***ards grind you down. The nutters think they can do what they like and hurl abuse etc, but it is illegal and they will be put back in their boxes.

[kate h]

Midivydale - you are doing a brilliant job of articulating the realities of all of this. Thank you. I want to sit on Peckham Rye with all our kids in a huge circle - with flags from every SE22 nation laid out in the middle - and hold hands. Probably corny - I don't know. Just really struggling with how impotent and sad I feel.

[midivydale]

Kate, I will come and hold hands x

[kate h]

Imagine if we could cover the Rye with flags! Thousands of them....x

[????]

Please stay everyone - we need and love you being here the majority of us Londoners

[WorkingMummy]

sb,

yes - same boat.

I am really worried that this is not being talked about. The news (and the Lounge) is all about party politics now. When i am still walking around in a daze, going ???? how can anyone be thinking of anything else.

People casually say that Brexit will take years and nothing will happen for months, like that's a good thing. Of douse i do not want it to happen tomorrow. But on the other hand I cannot walk around for years with this level of uncertainty.

We are looking at citizenship options but frankly - that feels worse. It's like, suddenly members of my own family need to qualify just for our family to continue. People who are not in our boat talk about citizenship like it was just forms. Its not. Its like feeling you have to...make yourself good enough for this country some how.

We have to speak out more about this. Publicly. The politicians have highjacked the debate and are talking nonsense (i.e. about themselves and who is whose leader!!) and ignoring the real issues. Like they did before the vote.

It's terrible.

I have some resources that enable families in this position to make their voices heard, but i will pm you about that. Anyone please pm me if you want access to these.

[midivydale]

"People who are not in our boat talk about citizenship like it was just forms. Its not. Its like feeling you have to...make yourself good enough for this country some how."

^^this^^

💔

[Ellie78]

Posting a PM I sent to someone today:

I have to have faith that, despite all appearances, politicians aren't completely stupid. I can't believe they're going to put a gun to the head of the economy because some narrow minded bigotry at home. But - then again - I've just heard May on the radio....

I could only ever reconcile my Britishness as part of Europe. As this country disintegrates I think people will be left wondering why politicians gave away the United Kingdom because of a right wing sway on a vote that should never have happened in the first place.

(that was perhaps poorly phrased - it was the grounds of the vote that i have issue with).

I am similarly disgusted that the narrative of this vote has already been hijacked - you lost, end of story - that's democracy.

This isn't my democracy. Not a democracy where a coalition of variously desperate grievances can coalesce to condemn generations within the UK to a parochial, and comparatively impoverished, future.

We need politicians to display some seriously good leadership here AND STOP THINKING OF THEIR CAREERS!!! Just for one very important period.

[midivydale]

This is getting worse and worse. Upon questioning in parliament this week, Cameron et al refused to reassure EU nationals of their long term status in Britain. How can this be? Why is it so quite about the future of the millions of EU nationals (and the income that we bring).