EU Petition

[Blah Blah]

He has to win the leadership first Louisa. It's reported Gove is not going for it but will be a running mate for Bojo (it's Blair and Brown all over again and we know how that ended). Could then be Bojo vs Teresa May. Will Osborne enter the race too?

[WorkingMummy]

Hmmm... Bojo v May. Yes and maybe it will all just be allowed to run on and descend to party politics of a barely in the majority ruling party with no mandate left post 23.6.16. A general election now would hardly bring everyone together.

Golly.

Can't we call him BJ? Just, suits him so well. That's what all of this quite possibly was for him. A great, big, BJ.

[Louisa]

Osborne doesn't deserve to enter any race. His puppet master has walked off in a huff after handing the car keys over to a circus act. So time for the puppet to retire gracefully. And fingers crossed, never thought I'd say this, Theresa May will be the one to steady the ship. Just as Harriet Harman did when Miliband stepped down.

Louisa.

[WorkingMummy]

Cracking!!

He vows what? Which side was he on?

And he is in ??? what kind of position (by which I mean, not moral position, but actual position as a bank bencher) to give this reassurance?

Louisa Wrote:

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> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037

>

> More breaking news. Boris confirms EU co operation

> will begin immediately.

>

> Louisa.

[Luana]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-result-latest-david-lammy-mp-eu-referendum-result-parliament-twitter-statement-stop-this-a7102931.html

[JoeLeg]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037

>

> More breaking news. Boris confirms EU co operation

> will begin immediately.

>

> Louisa.

I'm really not entirely clear from reading that quite what Boris means will happen. Am I being stupid (not impossible on any given day, quite likely right now), or is that a massive fudge?

[WorkingMummy]

Meanwhile, Hollande and Merkel announce that they are in agreement as to how they are going to handle the exit process.

And the pound continues to crash.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36636853

[Loz]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Osborne doesn't deserve to enter any race. His puppet master has walked off in a huff after

> handing the car keys over to a circus act.

Actually, it was never quite clear who was the puppet master and who was the puppet in that double act.

[Louisa]

Boris again continuing to make promises he can't keep. Britain will continue to be in the free market, freedom of movement will continue and Scotland isn't entitled to/won't get a second referendum "there's no appetite" apparently. Bizarre.

So let's tell everyone it's all going to be fine, and continue to piss off the Scots in the process. What's wrong with this guy?

Louisa.

[Blah Blah]

1.5tn lost worldwide! geez. That's really scary.

[WorkingMummy]

Lou, Boris is just, god knows. He has no power to say what will happen. Just as he had no power to promise you no recession. He is probably hoping he can somehow back peddle to remain.

Article 50 is the only power any new PM will have left. Do I push the button or do I not?

Once he pushes that button, all the power will pass to the EU to say what our terms of exit are. And those terms will be restricted to allocation of our contributions in the interim period (post trigger pre departure), and what happens to EU citizens living in the UK (and UK citizens living in the EU). Then we leave the EU. If we don't like the terms offered on those limited topics (which is all clause 50 is about), they get to impose their proposals on us by a majority vote (which obviously we get no vote in). Free trade, free movement of persons, all of that, goes, after the clause 50 trigger process ends and we exit. Clause 50 does not entitle the EU to give us a trade deal. That's a whole other process which they have already said they will not do in parallel. (Hard to see how they could, legally or pragmatically. And anyhow, they won't, because they don't want us using their citizens over here or our limited future contributions as bargaining chips in any re-entry process. So the processes will be separate. All that posturing by Farage, Boris, blooming Dyson, about how easy and quick and inevitable a new trade deal would be, was men having a pissing contest in a urinal. That is all that was.)

When, and only when, we are out, do we get to add our name to the list of countries who want to join the EU. Which may not even happen. And if it does, we have no power to dictate terms of re-entry - zero.

[Blah Blah]

Looks like we are heading for recession too. Credit rating was downgraded on Friday too.

[JoeLeg]

Has he said if they will invoke Article 50? Surely they can't if he wants to keep all that? My head is strartong to hurt after all this ridiculousness...

[WorkingMummy]

Until any candidate sets out his or her position on clause 50, i can't see they are even a candidate for anything at all.

That is the only question.

[Louisa]

Surely only Cameron has the right to press the Article 50 button? He's still PM.

Louisa.

[Blah Blah]

I don't think he can Louisa. There has to be an Act of Parliament first.

[heartblock]

What a mess!

[WorkingMummy]

Yes, Blah Blah is right. When i said PM push the button, what I should have said was, PM/government propose legislation that would - if passed by Parliament (both houses) - invoke article 50.

And there is a risk that parliament will refuse to pass article 50 legislation - as some MPs have already said they will. The referendum was not a plebiscite (not people made law). It was just supposed to be advice to our MPs.

[Louisa]

And if the lower house doesn't allow legislation to invoke Article 50, what then? Chaos on the streets? Questions about democracy and legitimacy? I don't know where we go from here tbh.

Louisa.

[JoeLeg]

Hang on, I thought they didn't need Parliamentary approval for Article 50, doesn't it come under executive powers or something?

I read this only the other day, how the hell can I not remember it or where it was?

[Blah Blah]

They need the Act of Parliament to activate the instruction of the referendum, because the referendum was not legally binding. The referendum on AV voting on the other hand was legally binding and would automatically have become law.

[JoeLeg]

But surely if Article 50 already allows for Govts to use it, they don't need an Act to go down that road?

(Seriously, I've been lacking on sleep lately so it's possible I'm being really thick about this, but nowhere have I seen anything that said Parliament needed to be consulted. Very happy to be wrong about it)

[etta166]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> Hang on, I thought they didn't need Parliamentary

> approval for Article 50, doesn't it come under

> executive powers or something?

>

> I read this only the other day, how the hell can I

> not remember it or where it was?

It's actually not altogether clear, with legal experts on both sides of the argument as to whether an Act of Parliament is needed or not. It's certainly not explicitly required.

There's also the uncertainly of whether the devolved governments get a say in how Westminster changes their relationship with the EU. Particularly for Scotland: http://www.vox.com/2016/6/25/12031254/no-brexit-article-50

[Louisa]

What Cameron really should do tomorrow, is call a press conference (bare in mind his political career is now all but over so no face loss), and tell the nation that he will need ratification from the regionally devolved parliaments before he can invoke Article 50, more or less handing over the process to the regions. Scotland and NI votes against invoking of Article 50, and Cameron announces under such circumstances which threaten the stability of the union, he cannot invoke Article 50 and returns to the EU and tells them for reasons of stability the UK will be remaining in the EU.

Louisa.

[Blah Blah]

Interesting idea Louisa.