Schools in the Dulwich area

[Ratcliffe]

We have just moved to the area (SE24) and I've 8 weeks to go before the birth of our first baby.

I have heard so many stories about the need to register for schools even at this stage and have heard wonderful things about the Catholic school - St Anthony's. Can anyone enlighten me about this / other schools and what we need to do to put ourselves in the best position going forward? Being in North Dulwich / Herne Hill - are we in the right area? We will probably move in about a year but would want to make sure we make a sensible choice re location.

I will be heading back to work in January 2011 and so will be in touch again nearer the time looking for a nanny share too! Longshot - but if anyone could recommend a maternity (night) nurse too that would be really helpful although happy to go via an agency on this one.

[Fuschia]

Ratcliffe, the St Anthony's criteria are here: http://www.stanthonys.southwark.sch.uk/page8.html

Main one:

"

2. Baptised Catholic children or children enrolled in the catechumenate. Evidence of Baptism/catechumenate will be required.

The following order of priorities will be applied when applications within any of the above categories exceed the places available and it is necessary to decide between applications:

1. For Categories 2 and 3 above - The strength of evidence of commitment to practice of The Catholic Faith as demonstrated by the regularity of the family's Mass attendance on Sundays and evidenced on the Supplementary Form by parents/carers. This evidence must be endorsed by a priest at the church(es) where the family normally worship and from whom the school will seek a reference. ?Applications will be ranked in the order shown on the Supplementary Form Firstly those who attend Mass weekly, secondly those who attend Mass most weeks etc.

(Siblings and Distance are then factors too)

?Catechumen? means a member of the catechumenate of a Catholic church. This will normally be evidenced by a certificate of reception into the order of catechumens. By ?regular practising Catholic family?, we mean at least one parent/carer and the children attend mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation as a central part of their lives. Missing mass more than once a month would not be deemed as regular practice.

Information about applications in previous years

The school is always heavily oversubscribed. We have received 108 (2007), 128 (2008) and 148 (2009) applications for 45 places. In these two years, only applicants in category 1 were offered a place. As the school is usually oversubscribed by Catholic candidates, it is unlikely that a non-Catholic applicant will obtain a place. The governing body has been unable to offer a place to a non-Catholic applicant at any time in the last 10 years."

So basically, you need to be practising catholic and attend mass weekly and live as close as possible

[taper]

It is so depressing that the state funds a school with entrance criteria like that.

[Fuschia]

taper Wrote:

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> It is so depressing that the state funds a school

> with entrance criteria like that.

It must be worrying for parents that siblings don't get preference unless they meet the requirements for attending mass weekly! Imagine if your second child got sent elsewhere because you weren't fervent enough in your church going!

[sillywoman]

Ratcliffe - are you only interested in Catholic schools?

[littleEDfamily]

taper Wrote:

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> It is so depressing that the state funds a school

> with entrance criteria like that.

Agree 100%, taper. In my opinion, the state should only provide a secular education, and if parents choose to educate their children according to their faith, it's a choice they should pay for, as you would private school.

But - I am off topic, again. If you're in SE24 and would consider private, I can recommend Herne Hill School.

Welcome to the area, Ratcliffe!

[ClareC]

taper Wrote:

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> It is so depressing that the state funds a school

> with entrance criteria like that.

Totally agree! If they wish to discriminate in this manner then it should be funded independently! I find it hard to believe this is not deemed discriminatory!

[minder]

Being in SE24 (North Dulwich) would make you outside the catchment area I should think. If you're thinking of moving again in a years time SE22 would be the best place!

[dulwichmum]

I know that this is off topic, but the Catholic Church would have no power if they did not have a strangle hold on parents accessing state funded school places in this way. They have lost the moral authority to be involved in the education of children. Their teaching on sex education alone deems them unworthy to educate children.

[sian]

Dulwichmum - off topic and prejudiced and ill-informed.

[dulwichmum]

Sian,

You clearly do not know me. I know more about this subject than I care to.

[brezzo]

Dulwichmum - off topic and spot on!

[barrybrains]

Most religious schools have entrance criteria as such. As we are a Christian country, I think it's perfectly acceptable for the state to fund these schools. Anyway, digressing from the original thread...

taper Wrote:

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> It is so depressing that the state funds a school

> with entrance criteria like that.

[peckhamboy]

In what way are we a "Christian country"? I suspect there are more atheists and agnostics than practising Christians and that's before we even get to the very large populations of other religions. If the church wants to provide schools that promote Christian teaching and only accept practising Christians, good luck to them. But the state should provide schools that accept anyone on an equal basis and treat people of all religions or no religion equally. Or do you suggest that the state should also support atheist schools that exclude anyone who has attended church of their own free will (if you believe in such a thing) in the previous year?

[barrybrains]

The majority religion in this country is Christianity. Admittedly, not that popular these days, but popular enough to lead to St. Anthony's, Dulwich Village schools and other religious schools in the area being highly over-subscribed.

There are many religious schools in the UK, such as Jewish schools (mostly around North London). Do you object to these too as they have the same entrance criteria?

[ClareC]

Being christian isn't enough though! You have to be catholic!

[Fliss]

Enough with the Church-bashing! We're having rather a lot of it these days and it's getting boooring!

[barrybrains]

That is absolutely no problem for the many Catholics in the area, who probably wouldn't apply to Dulwich Village as they are not CofE, so it all works out in the end.

And yes, I'm with Fliss, enough of the church-bashing. If people want to go to church, then so be it

ClareC Wrote:

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> Being christian isn't enough though! You have to

> be catholic!

[Fliss]

Dulwichmum - as Sian said, your view is prejudiced and ill-informed.

[littleEDfamily]

Firstly, sorry Ratcliffe, we have highjacked your thread. I hope you find some good recommendations and am sure you will love living in this area.

I have no issue with children being exposed to a Christian 'ethos' - do unto others as you would have done unto you, and all that perfectly sensible stuff.

However, de-prioritising children from attending a state funded school on the grounds that have not proven they are suitably indoctrinated is just plain wrong. I am totally against faith schools for many reasons, but one of the primary reasons is that it legitimises the idea of segregating society on the basis of religious ideology. If find it totally distasteful to expose a young child to the concept that certain people are 'special' or 'different' because of their religious beliefs, or indeed that they are superior because of theirs. As a society, we are encouraged (and forced by legislation) to embrace diversity and not practise discrimination, so for our government to fund schools where such discrimination is fundamental to the school's ethos and practises is totally hypocritical. And personally, I find the whole 'fire and brimstone' thing of which the Catholic Church is so fond (and I was raised a Catholic so feel qualified to comment) quite unsavoury not to mention totally inappropriate to exposure a 5 year old to. I'd be very peeved, if in order for my child to attend the state school closest to us (assuming we could even get in), I would need to expose them to concepts which I find medieval.

[barrybrains]

Surely private schools expose the children to an idea that they are for special or different people - i.e. those who can afford it?

littleED, I'm with you on the discrimination thing, that is slightly at odds with embracing diversity, but let's face it, East Dulwich is not exactly known for welcoming diversity with open arms.

However, the churches do have the best schools, and I'm perfectly happy to take a bit of "fire and brimstone" if it means a fantastic school. By the way, it's not as unsavoury or inappropriate as your own experience of primary school. I think you'd be hard pushed to find a pupil (or parent) who isn't happy with the school.

[womanofdulwich]

I think to say the churches have the best schools is too general. ST Josephs College and Bishop Thomas Grant are both secondary catholic boys schools and I would not say they were the best schools . I would not say they are the worst as my son went to St Josephs College for 5 years . However I think you have to look at each school individually, it is not just whether the school is christian/catholic it is what the surrounding schools and catchment area are like. If you are not a catholic to begin with, going to a secondary catholic school is very unlikely to make you become one. If you are christian but not catholic you can still go to some catholic schools, but there is quite a culture clash which can be a little uncomfortable with all the prayers if you are unfamiliar- or on the liberal side of Christianity. Still it was an education for me to see how catholics can be ( so very charitable) but enough to make my son go from C of E to atheist. You have to go and make up your own mind up. You should not judge until you have been and looked.

[barrybrains]

OK, I shall refine my comment to "the church has some of the best schools in East Dulwich" as the two you mentioned are Lambeth and Norwood. I personally think that Dulwich Village Infants and St. Anthony's are two of the best schools in the area. The parents, pupils and OFSTED certainly seem to back that up. That's not to say the other schools aren't any good, but I definitely think these two are the ones that stand out as being some of the best.

[littleEDfamily]

I'm sure you would be hard pushed to find a parent who isn't happy with the school - they're all practising (or pretending to be) Catholics!

It's an interesting point you raise on private schools being discriminatory on the basis of financial means, and it's impossible to convincingly argue against the point that private schools can be divisive. But there is a difference between an individual exercising their right to spend their money to buy their child what they believe is the best education available, and the government institutionalising and legitimising discrimination on religious grounds. I feel a lot more comfortable explaining to my child that certain opportunities are available to people due to their economic circumstances than I would telling them that that only children who believe 'x' can attend a particular school.

[ClareC]

littleEDfamily Wrote:

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> I'm sure you would be hard pushed to find a parent

> who isn't happy with the school - they're all

> practising (or pretending to be) Catholics!

>

> It's an interesting point you raise on private

> schools being discriminatory on the basis of

> financial means, and it's impossible to

> convincingly argue against the point that private

> schools can be divisive. But there is a difference

> between an individual exercising their right to

> spend their money to buy their child what they

> believe is the best education available, and the

> government institutionalising and legitimising

> discrimination on religious grounds. I feel a lot

> more comfortable explaining to my child that

> certain opportunities are available to people due

> to their economic circumstances than I would

> telling them that that only children who believe

> 'x' can attend a particular school.

Totally agree! I have nothing against the church and am certainly not a "church basher", I agree with the principles too however do not agree that tax payers should fund exclusive schools!!

I am not 100% comfortable with public schools however, these are not funded by the state and if people choose to spend their money this way that is entirely their decision.

I have no problem with "faith" schools, I do however disagree that children should be discriminated against because they are not the right faith! They are too young to have an opinion on religion or faith, seems wrong they are discriminated against due to their parents beliefs, non beliefs or (as the case is) church attendance!

If a school is publicly funded it should be available to the public!