Stunned

[WorkingMummy]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I travelled to France... Switzerland.. Italy...

> Austria ... Holland... Germany East/West ..

> All before the E.E.C. / E.U. existed..

>

> There is no indication that myself or anyone else

> from the UK will face any restrictions after

> leaving.

>

> There will be a need to show ones Passport and

> some security checks but with the current threat

> of terrorism across Europe, that's hardly a bad

> thing.

>

> The Paris tragedies were thought to of been

> possible due to no travel restrictions between

> Belgium and France.

>

>

>

> DulwichFox

Yes. Europe was never the USSR. Well spotted. You did not have the right to remain and your did not have the right to work. Which mine and so many other local families now depend.

[heartblock]

Dear midivydale, the majority of Londoners want to be in the EU and we want and need you to have London as your home. I'm so sorry that this stupid vote has made you sad. One of my friends who stupidly voted out as an 'antiestablishment' protest vote kept saying to us yesterday that he was upset that he had voted leave now, his journey from Leyton to ED yesterday was awful, everyone on the train, tube and bus looked depressed and subdued.

[WorkingMummy]

Also DF - there are already security and passport checks at our borders even for EU entrants. Because of Schengen opt-out. So that is not something you gained by voting out.

[DulwichFox]

I did not vote out for personal gain.

I would like to live in Turkey but I am restricted to 90 days each year..

I would like to see Turkey join and that would of allowed me to live in Turkey.

..But an opportunity to leave the E.U. was more important to the benefits of the U.K. than my personal wishes.

I acted selflessly in the interests of this country..

DulwichFox

[Alan Medic]

Time will tell DF. I expect you and those who voted like you to leave will regret doing so.

[red devil]

Can someone set up an online petition requesting that Foxy (aka Saint Fox of the Blessed Martyrs) be allowed to live in Turkey...permanently

[shaunag]

Fox, I'm sorry but I think you have mis-typed 'U.K.' Instead of 'England'. The leave result is not in the interests of Northern Ireland, which is part of the U.K. I hope to god there isn't a return to violence there as a result. The mess that has happened with the Scottish result voting remain but being obliged to leave is again of no benefit to the UK if it ultimately results in Scotland no longer being a part of it.

I understand and respect that you think you have done the right thing, but sadly I think you may in time feel differently.

[Jenny1]

Hi Kate h - you were looking for a protest. You may have already seen that one is planned for Tuesday afternoon/evening (1700-2000) in Trafalgar Square. It's called 'London Stays'.

I hope this link works to tell you more about it. But if my technology skills have failed then a quick 'google' search should reveal more.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1671704409745795/

[Louisa]

For the umpteenth time, it would not be in the interests of the rest of the EU to stop trading with us and therefore they would want a swift deal which would make it easy for everyone, regardless of the hot air surrounding brexit.

I hear lots of people talking about us tearing up years worth of trade deals and special clauses within deals we are already embedded in, and the damage this will do. The fact remains, we have to renegotiate pretty much everything and we need someone at the helm who will fight our corner to ensure we come out of this with the very best deal we can. I concede that the single market is something we will probably be forced to take on unless we decide to completely cut all ties with Europe which clearly would be ludicrous.

Louisa.

[red devil]

Agree shaunag. The sight of Brexiters waving their Union Jacks will come back to haunt them should we stay out of the EU long term. It was a vote to break up the Union...

[DulwichFox]

The attitude of the European Connission .. like get out quick.. indicates to me they are happy to see the back of the UK. Last thing Brussels wants is for the UK. to renegotiate..

We were only ever a 'Token' member. Not many people 3 months ago would call themselves European..

They would be British.. English.. not European.. But now Shock Horror.. they are all Frigging Europeans..

DulwichFox

[Blah Blah]

Cameron resigned because he doesn't want to be the one that has to sort out a mess he never wnated to come about. He knows that the end result is not going to be what the public on the leave side truly want. Johnson knows it too, but wants to be PM more than he cares about upsetting people.

I agree on the shock factor needing to reside Louisa, but those voting for leave did not vote for a Norway type deal with freeodm of movement still in place. We both know that Johnson is not against freedom of movement. Anyone involved in business and investment at that level wants freedom of movement, and they are the people that run the country. Whichever way you look at it, the leave voters are going to feel cheated. What that leads to in terms of civil unrest is what bothers me. There have already been several reported incidents of racist verbal attacks since the result.

I also think that those 27 nations of the EU are not going to make negotiations easy for us. There will be no 'special' deals, which is what all of us arguing for remain were pointing out all along, and you seem to now be agreeing with that Louisa. Yes Merkel is a pragmatist, but the EU is 27 nations. We may well be made an example of.

Jaywalker is right on the deep feelings of mourning and the remain voters are not going to to sit quietly once the shock is over either. It wasn't just the job cuts announced yesterday, the business relocations to mainland Europe, or the ?250bn put on the line to save the crashing pound (a bailout equivalent to the cost of being in the EU for around 20 years btw), it's every downturn we are going to feel with every difficulty in those negotiations. Inflation is already predicted to hit 4% by the end of next year. That's higher prices for all of us. We import most of our raw materials, fuel and energy for manufacturing too. These are serious repercussions that are going to hit the very people who voted leave the hardest.

There are already many people who are regretting having voted leave. 'What is the EU' was the most googled phrase from the UK after the result. It seems people suddenly decided to find out what they had voted to leave, actually is.

If Scotland and NI seperate, we won't even be an Island anymore.

[WorkingMummy]

For the umpteenth time, L, clause 50 does tear up the bloody deals. FfS.

We will need a trade deal more than they will. But even IF we were of equal size and weight, we have NO VETO. They DO.

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

Louisa, you are demonstrating an incredibly poor understanding of how the EU legal framework works.

I don't understand why people are trying to reason with her. Like many Brexiteers, she's just decided that how she wants things to work is the same as reality. I suspect you could put the treaty or any EU regulation under her nose and point out in monosyllabic terms how things work, and she would still stick her fingers in her ears.

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

messageRe: Stunned

Posted by Alan Medic Today, 12:43PM

Time will tell DF. I expect you and those who voted like you to leave will regret doing so.

I doubt it AM. They will just find a new scapegoat.

[Loz]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ..But an opportunity to leave the E.U. was more important to the benefits of the U.K. than my

> personal wishes.

>

> I acted selflessly in the interests of this country..

>

> DulwichFox

Really? The economy is crashing, the Union breaking up and we are about to be torn a new one by the EU negotiating team.

You think that was in the interests of the country?

[Earl Aelfheah]

The EU camp are now saying they want free movement of labour, that there isn't a ?350m 'Brexit windfall' after all and it appears Boris' claim made just before the vote, that there would be no economic shock in the event of Brexit, was 'mistaken'. Wierd.

Newsnight exchange with Brexit MEP Daniel Hannan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628894

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

I tried to have this conversation with a free Brexiteers Loz. It is amazing how many of them refused to believe there would be any economic impact (I'm even seeing people now claiming the dead cat bounce on the FTSE is evidence that there is no real economic effect) or didn't grasp the concept that if the banks/big business are affected, eventually it hits everyone.

I considered voting out at one point but I did the reseach and realised what would happen. I've come to the conclusion that the majority of Brexiteers are not remotely interested in any evidence and will deny London is burning even when their feet are on fire.

[Earl Aelfheah]

...oh and it appears that the EU aren't falling over themselves to give us a preferential deal, but in fact want us to Fock off as soon as possible.

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

Exactly. Juncker has said this will not be an amicable divorce.

The lack of awareness of the broader EU political landscape should not be surprising, but it still gobsmacks me that half the country could be so ethnocentric and ignorant to not understand what the ramifications for the EU would be of making this easy on us.

[Louisa]

After taking some time to read up a bit more about the EU, as well as the informative posts above. I am starting to have a jittery moment of doubt, where, against the backdrop of my reactionary brexit vote, I am genuinely wondering if I have done the right thing.

I've seen first hand the economic and social conditions these poor English and Welsh regions have experienced, and I felt very strongly about them finally getting a voice. A voice which they have been deprived of by successive governments. I am going to have to confess that, now reality is kicking in about this result, and I am having doubts about my judgement. As I stated yesterday I am far from jubilant, and maybe this is because I never really thought this would be the outcome.

I have never been a fan of the EU and its institutions, but without knowing terribly much about them I have often used the print media as my first port of call for information about how they work and indeed this perhaps to a degree has clouded my outlook somewhat. The EU institutions have always felt distant and undemocratic to me, and if I'm being honest I wanted to give them a kick up the backside so they could become more accessible to the very people they claim to represent. Now, after reading the above posts I am genuinely worried that this kick up the backside has turned into something far greater and more profound for our country and it sets my heart beating a little faster thinking about the consequences.

To conclude, I am not sorry for having an opinion on this, but I am sorry that the outcome of this referendum has gone far beyond I or most brexit supporters could possibly have ever imagined. I wanted 350 mil extra for the NHS promised by the brexit campaign and Farage has already backtracked on this, I wanted immigration controls so the poorest communities could no longer be put under infrastructural stresses and strains, and if we get a deal it will probably involve the free movement of people but without a UK veto. I want democracy and national sovereignty returned to the people, and it seems an unlikely outcome now. I really am sorry I have misinterpreted the consequences of this referendum and I just hope this decision I've made will not harm future generations when I am long gone.

Louisa.

[sheff]

i am well and truly stunned now...

[Alan Medic]

Now I am stunned.

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

Bloody hell. That has seriously floored me. I am sorry for casting aspersions against your open-mindedness Louisa.

"I have never been a fan of the EU and its institutions, but without knowing terribly much about them I have often used the print media as my first port of call for information about how they work and indeed this perhaps to a degree has clouded my outlook somewhat. "

THIS is exactly what I think has caused the problem. I don't think most people realise how horrendously misleading some of the media has been in all of this. People have been concerned with the agenda of big business, without realising that they were being manipulated by Mr Big Business himself, Rupert Murdoch.

[Loz]

Uber-stunned!