Scrambled Clegg....???

[Mick Mac]

Just watching a re run of the debate.

Clegg seems to have nothing positive to say now the economy is an important issue.

I'm not sure Brown has made enough of his success in saving the financial sector of the UK and perhaps even the global economy.

Cameron is on the attack. But not sure he would have achieved anything in 2007 when London was in crisis.

Clegg seems weak on this debate. He thinks mentioning the questioner's name and talking to the camera will win him an election.

Who will benefit from this third debate?

Edited to say - Clegg has just confirmed the ?2500 maximum bonus for bankers - he and Cable are just completely out of touch....

[Loz]

If Gordon Brown mentions the bloody child tax credit once more, I will explode. It reminds me of someone in a job interview that keeps bringing up the only piece of vaguely relevant experience they have, over and over again.

It's a shame there isn't a fourth debate - there is a fine drinking game here. Knocking one back every time he mentioned child tax credit would lead to carnage.

[womanofdulwich]

i thought child tax credit was for poor people but Clegg said some MP s could get it. Is that true?

[Mick Mac]

Telegraph today says Clegg exposed for 'his lightweigt nature and flabby lower sixth intellect'.

I dont understand why the public think he performed better than brown.

To me the lib dems are the most left wing of the 3 parties at the moment. Is that how they see themselves?

[ImpetuousVrouw]

I'm terrified of Cameron getting in and Clegg was out of his depth most of the time. I was going to vote Green but I am scared it will be one vote less to stop the tories so despite all the issues I have with what Labour have done in the past decade, I think they are the best of a bad lot!

[Keef]

I thought Brown did so well last night, bu everyone saying Cameron won. I just don't know what this is based on. I think Brown's problem is that he's not great at the headline grabbing soundbites.

Cameron seemed to have given up on the middle ground, and was going all out Tory. You could almost feel the contempt he has for the lower classes.

[ImpetuousVrouw]

Yes Cameron was awful in my opinion. He refused to answer direct questions and just carried on with his mantra. Radio 4 this morning was like a party political broadcast for the Tories.

All very depressing.

[*Bob*]

Cameron did well last night. He listened to his body language coach, perfected the assured lens-shot and memorised his highlighted passages admirably. He's still an insincere face-man with a mouth that looks like an anus though.

Cleggers disappointed a bit, especially in the first half. What had worked for him in round one - watching the other two fight - worked against him last night as he seemed a bit out of it. He improved as soon as the other two tried to have a pop at him and rallied towards the end.

I thought Brown was solid again. I think of the three, he's the only one who is 'of real substance'.. unfortunately I just don't like the substance.

Anyway, don't be schmuck; go and vote Liberal Democrat next Thursday. They're the only ones whose policies and rhetoric aren't entirely based around either cynically retaining an existing group of voters, or cynically targeting another.

[peckhamboy]

Seriously? After Brown's performance over the last 13 years I can't understand how anybody genuinely thinks he's the best option. I agree that there is no stand-out vote-winner, but nobody who as Chancellor and then unelected PM presided over the sale of our gold reserves, the expansion of the public sector to 50% of GDP, an increase in marginal income tax rate to 62% for people on a salary that, for London, is not huge, tax policies that penalise low and middle income earners, benefits policies that act as a disincentive to work, interest rate policies that encouraged the housing and lending bubble, a huge number of new and increased taxes and a doubling of national debt (all the time, stating that "prudence" was his middle name) can possibly be the best option.

That said, I hope he somehow clings onto power. Because the next government is going to face constant strike threats from the unions, will have to cut public services more severely than ever before, will have to raise taxes (as Brown himself admitted last night) and will probably make itself unelectable for 20 years.

Edited to say: Keef, you said that "Cameron seemed to have given up on the middle ground, and was going all out Tory. You could almost feel the contempt he has for the lower classes." Brown strikes me as someone who has contempt for everybody (with the possible exception of people like Ed Balls who share his rabidly socialist tendencies).

[Brendan]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Edited to say - Clegg has just confirmed the ?2500

> maximum bonus for bankers - he and Cable are just

> completely out of touch....

I think there?s an entire country that exists outside of the city of London that will argue it?s the bankers who are out of touch.

Not that I really want to get into the party vs party slagging match but when it come to the chancellors who actually has the worthwhile financial knowledge and experience, a mediocre policy wonk who made a career in the Tory party for himself riding on the back of his family?s influence, a lawyer turned professional politician or a guy with a PhD in economics who was the head economist for Shell?

[ImpetuousVrouw]

Which one worked for Shell?

[Gimme]

What they all said was miles away from the truth. Complex economic policy turns people off and impending tax rises and services would lose votes so we were stuck with arguments about minor tinkerings.

People understand 'tax the rich' and think they understand 'fairness in the tax system' (i.e. tax someone else not me) so these things get repeated over and over. Lets face it, the truth is that tax will rise for 'ordinary people' under all three parties (probably VAT and other global taxes) for the simple reason that tax raising from the very richest doesn't bring in enough and only across the board taxes for the masses will bring in the tax needed to reduce the deficit.

Or the other measure that we'll need - cuts in services. We got lots of talk about getting rid of jacuzzis in goverment offices, pay freezes for NHS managers and other efficiency savings but the only real way to make efficiency savings is freezing pay across public sector workers of all pay grades, cutting big defence projects and trimming the budgets for councils and other services. I.e. big and painful cuts that people wont like.

So last nights debate was pointless. Nobody discussed the real issue - how to get the economy back on track - in any but the most superficial of terms. For the simple reason that they would lose votes if they told the truth.

The real message from the debates (which we all got by the end of debate number 2) was:

Brown - trust me, I am the experienced one and the other two couldn't manage the economy

Cameron - we need change and I'm the guy for that

Clegg - no, actually I represent change, not Cameron

Only when we get the next government in power will we see what they were not saying in the debates.

[*Bob*]

Step forward, our wannabe chancellors:

Vince Cable: Economics at Cambridge, PhD in Economics in Glasgow, Chief Economist at Shell

George Osbourne: occasional speechwriter, failed journalist, Baronet in waiting, Bullingdon Club member - with an upper second-class degree in History. For anyone who's done History, you get an upper second for just writing your name at the top of the paper.

[Brendan]

Or just go with Ian Hislop when ask if he would stand for any political party saying if he was forced at gun point it would be the "Vince Cable for Treasurer Party?

That coming from the editor of the only trustworthy paper in the country.

[Brendan]

But perhaps enough with the praises for good Uncle Vincent here. It?s making me feel a bit worried. Whenever someone in power seems in the least bit genuine they inevitably end up being a lying bastard.

[Keef]

If Vince was the leader, I'd have no problem voting Lib Dem, as I have done in the past. My problem is that Nick Clegg come across as about as genuine as David Cameron.

[Loz]

To me the lib dems are the most left wing of the 3 parties at the moment. Is that how they see themselves?

Of the Big Three, I think it's the case that the LibDems are the *only* left of centre party at the moment, so yes. Labour haven't been left wing since Tony Blair - more of a centre-slightly-right party. The only part of true left wing politics that remains is the authoritarian streak and complete disregard for civil liberties when it suits their dogma.

Say what you like about the Tories, but at least their politics are consistent. Their big mistake this time was selecting a leader that personifies all the 'upper class twit' about them. The Tories, with all the public discontent with the Labour government, should have won this election at a canter. Unfortunately, the double whammy of Clegg looking convincing and 'Call Me Dave' not looking convincing has thrown a spanner in the works.

At national level, it has to be the LibDems for my vote this time around. Labour are tired and the Tories aren't looking the part.

[*Bob*]

Hardly anyone who has voted Lib Dem in the past has voted for them because of their leader. Indeed, 'in spite' of their leader would probably be a better description.

I'm not exactly cracking one off over Clegg as leader, but I'm happy they've finally got someone who ticks the shallow PR box required to secure votes from the vast swathe of the population who vote for someone mostly because they've got a well-fitted suit.

[mockney piers]

"For anyone who's done History, you get an upper second for just writing your name at the top of the paper"

Oi, I resent that. I made it to at least two lectures.

Anyway, what Bob said; I'm no Clegg fan, but Lib dem voters tend to vote for policies. Nitty gritty doesn't appeal to a goodly chunk of the voting population because they want simple soundbites, which is more or less what the three debates amounted to, a bunch of simplistic sales pitches.

I was thoroughly bored by last night's escapades.

ANyway, nothing the lib dems can do to get into power, in the past it hasn't really mattered that 20% of the vote equaled not many seats, but now thanks to decades of dodgy gerrymandering we face the very real prospect of 2nd place popular vote equaling not many seats. And 3rd place popular vote forming the government.

Crazy.

[reggie]

[genwilliams]

Clegg's idea about limiting the banker bonuses to ?2500 is the only LibDem policy so far this election that I disagree with - the banking system needs a shake up but I think they need a more rounded approach than that, and bonuses should be assessed on a meritorial basis, ensuring that hard work and success is rewarded but reckless gambling is not. With Cable's smarts I'm surprised he has anything to do with such a simplistic policy.

Other than that I liked Clegg last night. I'm a LibDem supporter who's never been particularly keen on Clegg (I originally wanted Chris Huhne for leader anyway) but I am increasingly impressed with him and I will be pleased to vote for him. Last night while Brown fearmongered and grumbled on about child tax credits, and Cameron reverted to charmless Daily Fail mode, Clegg actually seemed able to give quantitative and clear answers to questions, and was honest enough to admit when he didn't have a fix-all answer to something (e.g. admitting that you can't just close the borders to people immigrating from the EU). I am glad he stated a different position on Europe to the one Cameron is constantly trying to paint him with.

Cameron was repugnant last night. Sanctimoniously harping on about 'playing by the rules' and 'fairness', with not a jot of substance behind the sloganeering. His previous soundbite nonsense about 'mending broken Britain' illustrates just how little his policies translate into truly just government. (An interesting article on 'broken Britain' in the Economist, analysing crime and behaviour stats over the years, recently revealed just how inaccurate and opportunistic his pursuit of this issue is.)

Also: I really wish Brown would stop sneeringly calling them 'the Liberals'. It's starkly discourteous and just makes him look like a git.

[matthew123]

For those that can, might be time to leave the country whilst it is rebuilt

[Brendan]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ANyway, nothing the lib dems can do to get into

> power, in the past it hasn't really mattered that

> 20% of the vote equaled not many seats, but now

> thanks to decades of dodgy gerrymandering we face

> the very real prospect of 2nd place popular vote

> equaling not many seats. And 3rd place popular

> vote forming the government.

> Crazy.

Why are you surprised? If you take the population, eliminate the bastards and the idiots you will have about 20% left.

[mockney piers]

It's Sturgeon's Law isn't it: 90% of everything is sh!t

[Brendan]

And the rest is caviar.