Aircraft noise

[Timster]

Bloody nuisance planes. Where were they this morning to drown out all the birds singing away at 530 in the morning? - it's like living in the country for god's sake.

[James Barber]

Even those who claim you get used to the aircraft will probably take a while to cope with the proposed and planned 50% extra City Airport flights (that's an extra 40,000 pa). Heathrow plans to exceed 1/2million flights or more.

Easy to reduce the amount of noise by carefully changing flights profiles and angles of descent.

If the noise does bother you then join Heathrow Action Campaign Against Noise (HACAN).

[computedshorty]

Welcome PsndG.

A Noise?

During my lifetime of seventy eight years there have been many noises here in SE22.

Just a few that were endured because we had no choice other than live with it,

Planes yes out side but they become soundless inside as you have double gazing in your home.

They are only allowed to fly at a height that had a minimum limit.

I would think that any person looking to live in SE22.must know of the planes paths beforehand.

We had Trams that passed our front door, noisy dusty and very dangerous. We used them so we put up with them.

We endured noisy Flying bombs with the flame from its rocket at the rear, our worry was when it stopped, we knew that somebody would lose their homes and lives.

We had no choice of the sound when the Doodle Bugs and V11 Rockets exploded nearby.

We had no choice when the noise of the anti aircraft guns fired shells into the sky when noise of exploding all of those fragmented shells fell to earth as jagged pieces of shrapnel the noise that it made on roofs and those injured.

There is also noises from in car radios, it might not be your choice of music or the volume.

There is now music played in car parks in France, and in our large stores and Supermarkets, and on your phone whilst waiting for connection.

How many people consider you while they make their calls on their mobile.

Dogs make noise because they are untended.

A neighbour throws stones at birds because they sing, and swats any living insect he sees.

There is so much noise now everywhere, that in the future there might be a tax for Silence.

Have you ever thought do you make a noise that others might find offensive?

You might find somewhere more quiet, but then agains you might find many far worse.

My advice ignore the plane noise, listen to the birds.

[danielgriffiths]

Posted by: Huguenot Today, 06:42AM

danielgriffiths making a sound play for the 'absolute nonsense' award there...

"When ever we were shown around the house that we were to buy there were no planes flying overhead... No one mentioned it. We saw the house 6 or 7 times before we moved in and got quite a shock"

The planes go every 2 minutes, and the estate agents don't have the schedule. If you didn't hear it, it was because you didn't notice it. Nobody stitched you up.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hummmmm....

Well it is so nice to be called a liar by an absolute stranger. Thank you, you are such a good example to the children of today.

I stick by my story - Would also like to say that we moved to our new house from a few streets away... Yes that is right!! What idiots we must have been not to have seen the planes in ED for the year we lived here before!!!!! Must have had $hit in our ears to miss them! The level of noise from one part to another is quite different. Unfortunatly for us the planes use our roof to line up on their run for Heathrow. And I think we all know that we have on and off weeks when the flight plans change.

If people are happy to just switch off the noise great. We are told that there is nothing we can do about it, so lets just all roll over and let the govt and corporate world $crew us into submission.

If people are unhappy or concerned about something they should talk about it, engage in society and change things. I don't have the answer for the plane noise or any other problem in society but by discussing it we might find some solutions. I thought that was the whole idea of the ED Forum. Or is it just for people to share insults?

[thebestnameshavegone]

danielgriffiths Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Posted by: Huguenot Today, 06:42AM

>

> danielgriffiths making a sound play for the

> 'absolute nonsense' award there...

>

> "When ever we were shown around the house that we

> were to buy there were no planes flying

> overhead... No one mentioned it. We saw the house

> 6 or 7 times before we moved in and got quite a

> shock"

>

> The planes go every 2 minutes, and the estate

> agents don't have the schedule. If you didn't hear

> it, it was because you didn't notice it. Nobody

> stitched you up.

> --------------------------------------------------

> --------------------------------------------------

> --------------------

> Hummmmm....

>

> Well it is so nice to be called a liar by an

> absolute stranger. Thank you, you are such a good

> example to the children of today.

>

> I stick by my story - Would also like to say that

> we moved to our new house from a few streets

> away... Yes that is right!! What idiots we must

> have been not to have seen the planes in ED for

> the year we lived here before!!!!! Must have had

> $hit in our ears to miss them! The level of noise

> from one part to another is quite different.

> Unfortunatly for us the planes use our roof to

> line up on their run for Heathrow. And I think we

> all know that we have on and off weeks when the

> flight plans change.

>

> If people are happy to just switch off the noise

> great. We are told that there is nothing we can do

> about it, so lets just all roll over and let the

> govt and corporate world $crew us into submission.

>

>

> If people are unhappy or concerned about something

> they should talk about it, engage in society and

> change things. I don't have the answer for the

> plane noise or any other problem in society but by

> discussing it we might find some solutions. I

> thought that was the whole idea of the ED Forum.

> Or is it just for people to share insults?

What do you suggest is done? Maybe they could close Heathrow for you, or order the planes to fly a few streets to the left?

Maybe check what the commute's like from Chipping Norton?

[Jeremy]

I am surprised people say there is a big difference just a few streets away.

At what height do plans typically fly above London?

[BQC]

Chill people. There's a bank holiday weekend to look forward too. :)-D

If the noise is bad, move. If not stay & enjoy ED. B)

[trentk69]

I happen to like the plane noise, and I like watching them line up over ED for Heathrow. I use air travel regularly, and to see and hear them in the air is no problem for me.

Personally, I was glad when they started flying again after the ash debacle.

I especially liked computedshorty's comments above.

[SeanMacGabhann]

daniel

I think Huguenot was suggesting you were wrong-minded rather than a liar

But I don't see how governments and corporations are the subject of your ire on this one - those planes in the sky are flying ever-increasing numbers of "the people" to and from places - getting them on your side will be a lot harder than any government

[PandG]

Dan - thanks for your reply and comments - I must say I was a bit suprised at some of the 'mocking' responses - I thought, beforehand, that the ED forum was for sensible debate - perhaps not!!

Best wishes

PandG

PS - it isn't the one flight path into Heathrow or City airport, naturally this was expected and known about - it's when you get the Heathrow bound plane and 30 seconds later a City airport bound plane flies over at a much lower height - a double dose it seems to us. Cest' la vie - we will continue renting for a while longer and decide if we like ED and its inhabitants!! I might check other topics to see what the ED inteligencia say there!!

[SplendidLikePeckham]

a question for Daniel Griffiths - do you mind giving me some details of the accoustic glass you had installed? - curious about its approx price and effectiveness. Maybe you could PM me?

been thinking about something along those lines but it seems expensive - trying to guage whether it's really worth it.

I am sure one the big reasons some are bothered by planes and others aren't is the type of glazing you have. Many houses, including ours, have original Victorian glass and its accoustic qualities are akin to tracing paper.....!

[Gimme]

The mocking comments from the rogues gallery are a bit like the plane noise.

Stick around long enough and you start to filter them out.

I fully agree with a number of the posters re surprise at the aircraft noise. We visited ED loads before buying and never noticed the problem of aircraft thundering over until we moved in. But given that on 30% of days the planes land from the west (according to Heathrow statistics) and dont' go over ED, it isn't statistically that far fetched that you could visit ED 6 or 7 times and not see any planes at all. It's just one of these things.

If you accept that you cant do anything about it, then you become less bothered and therefore start to notice them less.

PandG Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dan - thanks for your reply and comments - I must

> say I was a bit suprised at some of the 'mocking'

> responses - I thought, beforehand, that the ED

> forum was for sensible debate - perhaps not!!

>

> Best wishes

>

> PandG

>

> PS - it isn't the one flight path into Heathrow or

> City airport, naturally this was expected and

> known about - it's when you get the Heathrow bound

> plane and 30 seconds later a City airport bound

> plane flies over at a much lower height - a double

> dose it seems to us. Cest' la vie - we will

> continue renting for a while longer and decide if

> we like ED and its inhabitants!! I might check

> other topics to see what the ED inteligencia say

> there!!

[cate]

The only ones I really notice are ones at approximately 430 am. Certainly haven't heard any recently though. I believe those are usually in the summer though. I lived in Barnes at one point and there they were unbelievable annoying to the point of having to stop having a conversation inside the house. I am curious as to which streets are particularly bad. What about wearing earplugs? I used to do that when I was living next door to a party house/drug dealer a long time ago and was frequently disturbed in the middle of the night by his visitors. It helped somewhat.

[Huguenot]

Sorry danielgriffiths, no need to be resentful, I didn't call you a liar. I said what you were saying made no sense - nonsense.

Let's say I'm wrong. I'm more than happy to apologise if I've missed your point.

Can you clarify your point? You say you visited your house 6 or 7 times and there were no planes? (I should add that if planes land from the West, they take off over the East, and take-off is noisy too)

You say you lived a few streets away and there were no planes?

You now say that planes 'use your roof' to line up their approach (I haven't heard of this in a recent flight manual, and grey London often meant that I couldn't even see ED when flying overhead. You must have one BIG unique roof!)?

It seems like you're saying that you were swindled by Estate Agents who (despite incredible odds of 1 in 2,350) took you there all seven times when there were no planes, and that now the airlines are pursuing a vendetta? That sounds like no sense to me.

Can you be absolutely clear in what you're saying happened? That way I won't need to make incorrect assumptions?

[Clazza]

Not much further away but hardly ever get any aircraft noise in Brockley. Much quieter than when I lived in ED.

[Gimme]

"Can you clarify your point? You say you visited your house 6 or 7 times and there were no planes? (I should add that if planes land from the West, they take off over the East, and take-off is noisy too)"

To clarify this point, when the planes take off over the East, they don't go over ED. The only flightpath over ED is a westbound landing path when the wind is blowing from the west or is less than 5mph (google 'the Cranford Agreement'). Apparently this means that the westbound landing path is used approximately 70% of the time and therefore that there are no planes over ED 30% of the time.

The odds of there being no planes over ED on 6 or 7 visits would be dramatically less than 1 in 2000 or whatever, it would actually be fairly low since in theory there are no planes over ED 9 days in every month.

[i*Rate]

PandG, you find that the noise from the planes will get on your nerves more in summer, although being woken at 4.45am when it's light is better than in the winter. Also, when you have the windows open on a warm evening, they will drown out the TV until 10.30pm, maybe later. When I moved here, 30 years ago, there were some planes and there was Concord too, but I don'nt think that they were allowed to land at night. Someone correct me on this, please. You do get a break, though, when the wind changes, because then they come in to land from the other side of London. Why not do what I do; take up plane spotting, it's a bit sad, but at least you get some pleasure from the situation. It can be extremely fascinating at times.

[Curmudgeon]

I think I must live in a different East Dulwich - I rarely notice planes

[Huguenot]

Assured Gimme.

But if we assume that the first time you visit a house the probability of a plane free day was 30% - or 0.3, then the probability of two plane free days is 0.3 * 0.3 = 0.09 or one in eleven.

After 7 iterations (visits) you end up with one in 2,350 (well, not quite, I improved the odds to one in 0.33 because of your original one third assertion).

This is so unlikely you'd have to assume that the Estate Agent was only taking people to houses on plane-free days. To do this they must either know the weather in advance (which the Met Office doesn't seem to do) or they make the bookings on the day itself after checking the wind.

If it's the latter they must guage their business assuming that they only do business just over one day a week, even though their business is mostly on Saturdays - so maybe only one Saturday every few months.

As I said, it doesn't make sense.

[ruffers]

Curmudgeon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think I must live in a different East Dulwich -

> I rarely notice planes

I think we decided earlier on that people tend to notice what they want to. As I type there's a plane coming over and I've become aware of it. If I wasn't thinking about it I wouldn't.

And I didn't know where to put this but it seems almost relevant here -

Visualisation of European airspace reopening after the volcano thang - a lotta planes.

[Gimme]

Hmmmm..... Not convinced Huguenot(although have just had a few glasses of wine so your argument did sound somewhat convincing at first - you aren't David Cameron in disguise are you?).

Think of it this way... if you can reasonably assume that the wind tends to blow in the same direction for a number of consecutive days in a row and that someone househunting would reasonably visit ED for 6 days on the trot, and that there are 9 days a month (30%) that are plane free, then.... the chances of those 6 visits being plane free are in fact 1 in 2.11 if the first day you visit ED is a plane free day and all 9 days in the month which have an easterly wind are consecutive. It is probably stating the obvious to point out that this probability is far lower than the 1 in 2300 chance that you suggested.

If however, I would concede that if you visit once a month for 6 months then your calculation is probably right. But then how likely are you to visit once a month for 6 months when house hunting.

Lies, damn lies and statistics eh.

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Assured Gimme.

>

> But if we assume that the first time you visit a

> house the probability of a plane free day was 30%

> - or 0.3, then the probability of two plane free

> days is 0.3 * 0.3 = 0.09 or one in eleven.

>

> After 7 iterations (visits) you end up with one in

> 2,350 (well, not quite, I improved the odds to one

> in 0.33 because of your original one third

> assertion).

>

> This is so unlikely you'd have to assume that the

> Estate Agent was only taking people to houses on

> plane-free days. To do this they must either know

> the weather in advance (which the Met Office

> doesn't seem to do) or they make the bookings on

> the day itself after checking the wind.

>

> If it's the latter they must guage their business

> assuming that they only do business just over one

> day a week, even though their business is mostly

> on Saturdays - so maybe only one Saturday every

> few months.

>

> As I said, it doesn't make sense.

[thebestnameshavegone]

An easier calculation is to each morning stare yourself directly in the face in the mirror and ask 'where is it I live again and what sounds do I expect to hear on the gentle lolloping breeze'?

If the answer is 'owls, sparrows' then move elsewhere

[Huguenot]

Can a breeze lollop? ;-)

Here's a Wind Rose for London for the year 2004, it's westerly westerly westerly. I reckon that 30% figure is a load of old trout ;-) :

I just don't think given that evidence that you could visit ED 7 times on the trot when there were no planes.

PS "I must say I was a bit suprised at some of the 'mocking' responses" What? I think honk took the mickey out of you, most people agreed with you, and the odd one made some sweeping generalisations and accusations of chicanery that simply didn't stand up under scrutiny.

Besides, 'mocking'?? Isn't that what happens in 1923?

[cmck83]

*deleted*

[computedshorty]

Just to remind you that up till 1946 the London Aerodrome was in fact based in Croydon, the expansion was expected to be limited by the area of land that was available, so Croydon Aerodrome was then just used for the small aircraft then closed.

Heathrow was chosen to be enlarged, and became London Airport, it is still being extended and is causing our noise.

But what if the Croydon Aerodrome had remained and expanded? The old site extended to Purley Way this is I think as the crow flies some six miles over the hill from E. Dulwich, the flight paths would be far nearer, and the upper parts of E. Dulwich would be more aware of the noise.

I can remember the landing area behind Horniman?s Museum Gardens, where the Zeppelin Airship Balloons had been tied to the metal rings in the hillside the fields were then called Furze Hill, this is now bordered by Westwood Park, should this area not have been built on it would no doubt be ideal for the Helicopters to use as a South London Base.

Should this have been done then I fear that there would be more concern of constant noise.