Primary school place allocation chaos has started!

[prdarling]

Used to be safest walking distance but is now as the crow flies

[PeterJohn]

I'm sorry to hear that some of the problems of school allocation that we saw last year have been repeated. When I was alerted to this issue over the weekend I asked for a complete breakdown on a ward by ward basis of where children have not been offered places in one of their preferred schools. There are a total of 175 children who have not been offered a place in one of their preferred schools in Southwark this year. I am looking into what further advice and support can be offered to parents at this time, and what steps we can take to ensure that all children are offered a place at one of their preferred schools. It does seem that the outgoing administration took a deliberate decision to delay these announcements, but I am determined that we will sort it out as quickly as possible.

Cllr Peter John

Leader-elect of Southwark Council

[prdarling]

Peter the thing is that most parents will really only want their first or second choice, so even if they were offered something further down the list, there is no way anything will really be sorted out quickly as everyone will go on a waiting list to try to get what they really want.

Believe me there will be many, many more than 175 children who are not in a school they want!

[Smiler]

It would help if, at the time of announcing the places, the Council published the kind of factual information about admissions that Lewisham does, e.g. the number of places allocated at each school on the basis of each admissions criteria, furthest distance for those admitted under the distance criterion etc. etc.

[clux]

I think that it would help if people were realistic with their choices. Not everyone in East Dulwich can get into Goodrich - especially as there seems to be such a high percentage of siblings taking up places. I completely understand that everyone wants the best school for their child but if you live 1000m from your first choice, popular, over-subscribed school you're not going to get in however much you want to.

[Coach Beth]

I absolutely agree with Clux. It is really not helpful for politicans to make promises that aren't possible to keep - no wonder people are disappointed. If most parents in ED are putting down Goodrich and Heber as their first 2 choices, realistically not all of them are going to get those schools - even with the extra buldge class at Heber. There are absolutely not enough places at these two schools for all the parents who want to go there. I dread to think what will happen when the siblings of those in the current buldge class come to go to reception themselves - and as Cora points out, schools with already little playground facilities are going to find themselves completely overwhelmed.

[prdarling]

Coach Beth the bulge class siblings have meant that in Goodrich there are 52/90 places given to siblings for 2010/11. This is absurd.

If everyone just went to their closest school as happened when i was growing up, there would be none of this bullshit. Am I missing the point?

[tallgirl]

prdarling, I do have sympathy for your plight and I hope you get a place at Goodrich from the waiting list, it sounds like you were very unlucky and are probably at the top, or close to the top of the waiting list. I was lucky and did get a place in my first choice Southwark school . As some parents were holding Lewisham places as well as being now offered Southwark places, places will come available on both sides of the border as parents offered schools in both boroughs turn one down.

In terms of siblings, it would be extremely difficult for parents with more than one young child at primary school to deliver them to different schools, simultaneously, each morning.

[Cora]

Peter John I don't get this - so everyone should just apply for the top 4 schools in the area and expect to get in - surely logistically that just doesn't work? 175 across the borough didn't get into their top 4 choices out of how many? If the decision is unfair against the criteria set-out then all of these will win their appeals won't they? And won't a large number of these get into their preferred schools after the shake-down?

I do agree that Southwark should copy Lewisham's letter's of rejection though (although sent in one envelope instead of one per school choice) as I think it explains the decision and lets parents know why they haven't got their choice. It prevents feelings of random decisions. I applied to 4 schools in Lewisham, didn't get into any but knew straight away why. It was depressing but fair enough...

I guess where I'm coming from is that not everyone can get into their nearest school as the area is just overpopulated with kids but the focus should be in ensuring that ALL schools are attractive to parents and that parents have to be realistic in their expectations.

[tor]

clux - I thought that I was being realistic believing that my child would get into a school 465 metres away!

As prdarling mentioned earlier, the catchment for Goodrich this year was just 440 metres which is insane.

It is reassuring to hear everyones stories of their children eventually getting a place. I will cling onto that hope rather than putting our house on the market. It's just my husband I have to convince now ....

[prdarling]

tallgirl not meaning to say that siblings shouldn't get a place - far from it as I would fully excpect my 2nd child to go where my 1st one does. I'm just lamenting the fact that last year's bulge class at Goodrich has this year created more problems than it solved

I TOTALLY agree with Cora and others re the letters - Lewisham are so much more organised. I didn't get a place at any of my choices but it was clear and plain why that was and what I had to do next. Peter John please take note..

[clux]

tor, my comment wasn't directed at you, i meant people who live 1000m and more away which i would think is almost certainly outside any popular schools catchment area.

[prdarling]

Tor my husband is on about us moving in with his parents until we can sell the house - God can you imagine!

[buggie]

Are there really that many people who have children in consequtive school years??

Surely for last years bulge class to be causing this years high sibling intake this would be needed?

Could it be lots of people live near a school of choice until their eldest gets in, and then moves bit further out (there is a noticable drop in house prices even within 1/4 mile of the SE22 border) knowing they can get the siblings in, rather than using the closer school?

Surely this is something which should be addressed - there seems to be a common theme that actually there are very few "bad" schools locally, just a lot which need the local parents to believe in them more (eg GG last year).

[prdarling]

Buggie

Normally about a third of places are taken up by siblings - this year it's well over half. It must surely be down to last year's bulge class??

[toast]

clux Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think that it would help if people were

> realistic with their choices. Not everyone in East

> Dulwich can get into Goodrich - especially as

> there seems to be such a high percentage of

> siblings taking up places. I completely understand

> that everyone wants the best school for their

> child but if you live 1000m from your first

> choice, popular, over-subscribed school you're not

> going to get in however much you want to.

Clux i understand your point but the situation is actually worse than you describe.

How about if you live 450-550m from your nearest school which you make first choice and get sent 9 schools away (and then only because its unpopular). Surely this is not something that is ok. How low are the councils standards? They have been given 12 million to sort this out.

[mrs.lotte]

Cora really says it all; the focus should be ensuring that all local schools are attractive to parents and buggie; absolutely a bit of belief and effort goes a long way as has been demonstrated at GG in a very short space of time indeed. Not everyone can go to Goodrich and Heber and it would be morally repugnant, in my opinion, to create middle class ghettos of these schools cramming children in to limited space.

That's not to detract from the agony of parents whose child has been allocated a far away and/or inaccesible school; been there, hated it but it did mean that we took what we perceived as a risk and have never regretted it.

[prdarling]

mrs.lotte Am understanding that you are walking distance to GG -am curious to know where you live and where was your first choice last year and why??

Glad you and your child are happy at GG though!

I just want to go to the school which is walking distance for us :(

[goosegreenpta]

Oops posted in wrong place

Sorry, nothing to say on this thread!

[buggie]

prdarling Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Buggie

> Normally about a third of places are taken up by

> siblings - this year it's well over half. It must

> surely be down to last year's bulge class?

But as I've already said, unless all of those are siblings of children in last years bulge class (which would mean a heck of a lot of families having 2 children only a school year apart) the bulge class can't be to blame.

Surely a more likely suggestion would be the fact that families are more likely to have been static due to the recession/drop in house prices locally - thus families that would have been moving on are instead hanging on for a few more years and so have further children starting school.

Surely the fact that children are unlikely to have siblings joining the school the year after they've started themselves is another reason the bulge classes are rotated to other schools (as well as the issues regarding limited space for extra classes within schools).

[prdarling]

No idea buggie - could sit here all bloody day and speculate. Very possibly yes. Just feeling drained with the whole thing to be honest. Frustrated that I've been worried about it since January and I could very well still be worrying about it come September. Exhausting

[mrs.lotte]

Yes am easy walking distance from GG. However lots of children there are not and still very happy indeed!

We put St. John's as our first choice last year and wrote GG off without even looking at it. We are 390m from st john's and were 15th on the waitlist. Went to see GG and took what we then thought (rather patronisingly in retrospect) was a leap of faith and it paid off.

I understand that GG reception class places have all been filled with people who put it as one of their 4 choices and the vast majority of those put it as their first choice so people this year much more clued up and sensible than I was!

I look forward to meeting the new parents and children who will have the good fortune to be taught by the wonderful reception teachers (Mrs H I know you read the edf sometimes - that's the modern day apple for the teacher!)

prdarling; I know you are anxious now but I feel sure that you will be offered something that is do-able. It may not be your first choice but really Goodrich and Heber are not the only schools in ED where parents and children are happy and learning.

Would you really want to leave ED? The picture is the same all over London and other cities and in the country chances are you will not be able to walk to school and it wont be on your commute!!

[misticnutmeg]

prdarling - you are stressing far too much! As stated previously - put your child on a waiting list and you may be offered a place within weeks. It sounds like you are not happy unless you are stressed (especially as you have been worried since January). If you didn't really want your 3rd of 4th choice of school you should have simply not listed them in the first instance, and just stuck with the two that you really wanted. It is totally pointless listing a school as the LEA will just assume that this is a school you wanted, and in their eyes feel they would have met your needs.

[Coach Beth]

Actually, if you just put 2 choices, then that gives the LEA license to put you anywhere in Southwark if you don't get in on the criteria for your first two schools. That is what happened to some people last year who assumed that if they just put two choices down - there 1st and 2nd - the LEA would be obliged to put them there. Instead, they got sent schools which were miles and miles way - we are talking down near Queens Road Peckham and also near Red Post Hill. Putting down just 2 choices is not a good idea. Just to let people know for next year. Nor is putting down 4 schools which are oversubscribed - or which you know you are unlikely to get - i.e. Dulwich Village Infants if you live near Peckham Rye for instance. Somewhere on your list you should put your nearest community school - that is the school that your child should have the best chance getting into. Unfortunately, as we have seen even that doesn't work if you are in the 'Bermuda Triangle' for primary schools. But you have a much better arguement if you have actually put down your nearerst community school and haven't gotton in than if you haven't.

[toast]

Misticnutmeg

Am interested in your connection to this issue, you have frequently commented on others positions and clearly feel very strongly, why?