LondonMix Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I can only go by the fact that at the time Frazier said he accepted the apology and that he wanted to give Ali a hug. Ali actually apologised to Frazier's son the night of their last fight saying he didn't mean a word of what he said in promoting the fight. He didn't apologise directly which always bothered Frazier. Their relationship was a very complicated one- for years Frazier's personal voice message celebrated the fact his blows were responsible for Ali's Parkinson. I'm sure both had unresolved feelings for a long time.In the end though Ali was one of the few to attend Frazier's private funeral in 2011 so by then at least the Frazier family appeared to have moved on and Ali certainly had. He eugilised him greatly in the press. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red devil Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 According to that Wiki link Ali went to Frazier's funeral which tends to suggest that his family had forgiven Ali. If other people still think taht episode taints his legacy that's up to them. For me he was the greatest sportsman who also transcended sport. Not only was he a positive role model for black kids, he was also a role model for white kids, everybody wanted to be Muhammad Ali... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonMix Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I agree red devil. Having a great legacy isn't about having made no mistakes in your life. He made plenty- speak to his 3 ex wives! He grew as a human being over the years, publicly acknowledged his mistakes and apologised for them, devoted himself to humanitarian work in addition to being a huge proponent in the civil rights movement, a world class boxer and one of the most dynamic and charismatic sports personalities in the 20th century.That the majority of this thread has harped on his feud with Joe Frazier really feels myopic and petty to me. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Lush Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 LondonMix Wrote:> > That the majority of this thread has harped on his> feud with Joe Frazier really feels myopic and> petty to me.This.Can we please accentuate the positive. Ali was a great man. Someone I loved and had the greatest of respect for. One of my heroes. He transcended sport. One of my biggest regrets is that when he made a surprise visit to my school in Tulse Hill in 1974 I missed him because I'd bunked off. RIP champ. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otta Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 LondonMix Wrote:>> That the majority of this thread has harped on his> feud with Joe Frazier really feels myopic and> petty to me. I'd argue that I just made a point and you're the one that dragged it on. And the fact you use the word myopic is ironic. Frazier said he accepted the apology, but then some evidence suggests he never really was able to let it go. That's his problem not Ali's, but the apology isn't really the issue, the issue is all the stuff he said in the first place which cased death threats to Frazier and his family. That's pretty bloody big in my book.Yes Ali was a wonderful boxer, and yes he was a great talker and personality, I never said he wasn't. But all this looking at your celebrity heroes through rose tinted glasses pisses me off.It's like all the people that ignore the fact their musical heroes were sleeping with teenage girls back in the day, whilst at the same time going on about how terrible that footballer was for sleeping with a teenage girl (it was, I'm not suggesting otherwise). But it's pure hypocrisy. Just because you liked someone doesn't mean they should get a pass for everything.Anyway, I'll bow out now. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonMix Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Otta, I don't think there is anything hypocritical or rose tinted about celebrating someone like Ali just because they did some things that they have apologized for. Comparing the Ali-Frazier situation to looking past pederasty is insane.After 4 posts about the issue, I came in to correct factually incorrect statements that people made about what happened. It could have easily ended there but didn't....Anyway, I'm glad the thread is moving on. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otta Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 LondonMix Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Comparing the Ali-Frazier situation to looking past pederasty is insane.> Indeed, had I actually done that (which I didn't) it would be silly. I've not compared the two things like for like, I am talking about people's willingness to forget things when it happens to be someone they looked up to.> Anyway, I'm glad the thread is moving on.Bit as always, only after you've had the last word right? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Lush Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otta Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Alan Medic Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> It's funny I was thinking wasn't he the boxer who> performed singing in my home town many years ago.> It appears he was. He must have done a tour of> Ireland.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31428195There's great video footage in that link. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otta Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 And I like this piece.http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/36452615 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Lush Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Otta Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Alan Medic Wrote:> --------------------------------------------------> -----> > > It's funny I was thinking wasn't he the boxer> who> > performed singing in my home town many years> ago.> > It appears he was. He must have done a tour of> > Ireland.> > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-3142> 8195> > There's great video footage in that link.Fecking marvellous. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Lush Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Actually, now I come to think of it I'd already left Tulse Hill School when this happened. I'd just started working at what was then IPC Newspapers and specifically I worked for the Sunday People and The Sporting Life at that time. I was lucky enough to go and see the Rumble in the Jungle live at the cinema at Marble Arch and Ali came to visit my old school after he'd won back the world title against Foreman and made a visit to Brixton. A lot of the kids that lived there went to my school. He was a massive hero to all of us. In the picture is my old school friend Tony Sibbleys sparring with Muhammad after he'd made a speech. He'd asked for the biggest, toughest kid to get up and spar with him. Tony was around 6ft 4ins and a lovely bloke. Sadly, I lost touch with him after I left. https://greatwen.com/2012/01/17/muhammed-ali-in-tulse-hill-1974/ Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonMix Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Haha! I need the last word? Right, let's agree to disagree.The links posted are really interesting. Otta Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> LondonMix Wrote:> --------------------------------------------------> -----> > Comparing the Ali-Frazier situation to looking> past pederasty is insane.> > > > Indeed, had I actually done that (which I didn't)> it would be silly. I've not compared the two> things like for like, I am talking about people's> willingness to forget things when it happens to be> someone they looked up to.> > > > Anyway, I'm glad the thread is moving on.> > > Bit as always, only after you've had the last word> right? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Lush Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 That's you again trying to have the last word is it LondonMix? FFS can we please move on? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otta Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 To be fair to LM there was no actual further argument in that post, and agreeing to disagree seems like a good choice.I enjoyed rewatching "The Greatest" on BBC last night, and think it's a well balanced film. Unfortunately they haven't made it available on iplayer. Hopefully they will... I'm not 100% sure, but it had the feel of a BBC film. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otta Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Or at least it felt like I was rewatching it, there was some very recent stuff in there like interviews with David Haye, but most of it was stuff I'd seen before in Ali films. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphinstone's Army Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Otta Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Elphinstone's Army Wrote:> --------------------------------------------------> -----> > Many years ago I had a 45 rpm of Cassius Clay,> > singing 'Stand by Me' which I really loved, b> side> > was 'The legend of Cassius Clay', - "This is> the> > legend of Cassius Clay, the most beautiful> fighter> > in the world today"> > > > Does anyone else remember it? > > > > I also remember Ali on Parkinson, and his> > 'bluebirds fly with bluebirds' speech, and> always> > the quick quip.> > > > And with the torch at the Olympics. > > > > Rest in Peace, Champ> > >hello Otta, thank you for this : I realise I could have looked it up/googled/youtubed, but my posting was spontaneous.I am impressed that you did this, you are my hero, thank you, Jenny x x Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphinstone's Army Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 steveo Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Hung like a beehello steveo, I will try to be gentle with you as you are young and foolish. You cannot have escaped the media coverage of this man, and must have absorbed at least a modicum of his influence on the world of sport, politics, entertainment, what a powerful presence he was. To be diminished by a puerile remark was unworthy and hope you feel well and truly admonished embarrassed and ultimately ashamed. A complex man, granted, and not necessarily a 'nice' man but one who made us all think and consider, the white man, the black man, he was a mirror to our feelings, prejudices, racial experience, and sterling entertainment whilst taking Michael Parkinson apart. He was close to Prince, they had a good rapport. We forgave him many things, for the fortitude and charisma he afforded, and sad that he has left us, a mighty presence in our midst, a bright light extinguished. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1005950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonMix Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36461015Amazing story on the BBC about his personal relationship with one fan for 30 years who who rate to from she was a little girl until he died. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1008047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Medic Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Elphinstone's Army Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> steveo Wrote:> --------------------------------------------------> -----> > Hung like a bee> > hello steveo, I will try to be gentle with you as> you are young and foolish. Young? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1008052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 No fool like an old fool Al Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1008066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphinstone's Army Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 steveo Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> No fool like an old fool Also rude, and out of context anyway. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1008217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Medic Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 What do you think he meant? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1008226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
camberwell70 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Alan Medic Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> What do you think he meant?Crummy pun Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1008272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otta Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Bloody hell. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/109171-muhammad-ali-has-died/page/2/#findComment-1008285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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