Changes post smoking ban... (Lounged)

[tommy]

Any observations (apart from being less smokey...) about the pubs and restaurants you frequent since the smoking ban ?

I've noticed reserved signs on the tables in The Gowlett (for people coming in for food presumably) and a more varied crowd - age wise (families to retired folk)

Surma was lovely, knowing that nobody was going to spark up half way through your lamb balti as well

[AndrewP]

Tandoori Nights on Saturday, without any unwanted smoke from others, was heaven. The vindaloo was rather good too! I have to say that the smoking ban was one of TB's few successful policies.

Generally I think it is a bit too early to gauge the main impact of the ban. At present the relatively warm weather means smokers congregate outside pubs and someone you have to wade through the clouds to get into a pub. But come November, when its dark, raining and cold in the evenings, I guess the smokers will have to either drink without a puff, or stay at home.

[Marmora Man]

AndrewP Wrote:

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> Tandoori Nights on Saturday, without any unwanted

> smoke from others, was heaven. The vindaloo was

> rather good too! I have to say that the smoking

> ban was one of TB's few successful policies.

>

> Generally I think it is a bit too early to gauge

> the main impact of the ban. At present the

> relatively warm weather means smokers congregate

> outside pubs and someone you have to wade through

> the clouds to get into a pub. But come November,

> when its dark, raining and cold in the evenings, I

> guess the smokers will have to either drink

> without a puff, or stay at home.

One of TB's policy successes!!! There's an indictment of 10 years of Labour government. The ban was based on dodgy evidence, popularism and an instinctive desire to introduce unnecessary legislation. To that extent it does reflect the last ten years of government.

The ban has placed me in a quandary - as an instinctive libertarian I deplore the legislation - as a life long non smoker I do enjoy the smoke free atmosphere in pubs and restaurants.

To follow the thread I have noticed that pub frontages and outside restuarants are very crowded with smokers - walking down Streatham High Street last week after a visit to see Harry Potter Mk 4 (too long, too dull for anyone, like me, over 50) was rather like spending time in an unreformed fag & booze bar. I experienced more secondary smoke in 100 yards than ever I have in local pubs pre ban. The weather will, as AndrewP suggests be the decider.

[Gerrard]

I was talking to my friend the other day about this, he DJ's in Liqourice once a month, and for the first time last weekend he was playing records to an empty room because all the smokers were sat outside with very little interest in what was going on inside... I am very happy to be able to have a drink in a smoke free environment, but I would also like a few drinkers around to swap a few tales with.

[mockney piers]

I have to echo MN's comments. I disapprove of almost everything under TB's tutelage, but am totally selfish in thinking this one was pretty good. But yes, high sts do have a fagash lil stink about them now, still I'd rather it was whirling with fresh air than trapped in a smug going nowhere.

Having been to Ireland quite a few times over the last few years I can assure you that inclement weather won't deter a smoker from having a fag. There's even a perception in Ireland that people take up smoking in order to hang around with the 'cool crowd' outside the pub. Sounds a bit anecdotal to me, unless of course none of us have got over being 13 and thinking it makes you cool?

anyone...anyone...Bueller?

[Ultraconsultancy]

Marmora Man

Whether you agree with it or not, the legislation was designed to protect pub staff, not you, from secondary smoke.

In Boston the rule is that you can't smoke while standing still, so pavement smokers from pubs have to walk round the block while fagging it.

NB Americans don't call cigarettes fags; don't say I didn't warn you.

UC

[SeanMacGabhann]

Without a smoking ban, I'd have to confess to being outside anyway if there was a DJ in Liqourice (with all due apologies to your friend) - but I take the point

It's very early days and many pubs will struggle to adjust (or may not) but this is not really a short-term thing. The full benefit won't be seen for years IMO

As a libertarian, I am more of a Consequentialist than a Rights libertarian - basically, I see intervention as sometimes necessary tool if voluntary action doesn't produce anything - as I've said many a time before not many people would voluntarily return to a smoking office, bus or plane. And if any legislation was proposed to ban smoking entirely I would oppose it.

[Ultraconsultancy]

MP we go to Ireland quite a bit and my understanding is that there's a kind of rural divide thing going on.

So while Dublin now feels like Copenhagen, beyond the pale there's still smoking in pubs, kids working on building sites, and horses delivering the Guinness.

[SeanMacGabhann]

As someone fom "beyond the pale" (and how that phrase irritates non-Dubliners) I can assure you that even in the rural part I am from the smoking ban is observed and in many places gratefully so. My cantankerous younger sister, a 30-40 a day woman, has finally given up and is a self-confessed new woman)

But apart from what I see when I go back to Ireland (a MUCH more interesting place than when I was growing - because of, not in spite of, all the reasons that some begrudgers still living there constantly mention - smoking bans, immigration, Euro etc) I pay little attention to family anecdotal evidence - which tends to have an opinion and then adapt the anecdote to suit

[mockney piers]

Agree with Mr McGabhann, I generally hang out in the deep south, and even in the remotest villages the smoking ban is faithfully observed.

Careful with that word libertarian. There are some pretty nasty types over the water who are co-opting it for their own nefarious views.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Re: the L word.... good point MP. This co-option business tho... fight or flee? hmmmm

And I used the phrase "I can assure you.." - I've been hanging out with Louisa too much ( just kidding Louisa ;-) )

[Parker's Folly]

The deep south of what? Kent or Essex?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Deep South of Ireland - where the smoking ban has been in place for a couple of years. (making it pertinent to this thread)

Much doom and gloom before it's introduction but by-and-large the country has survived. And Ireland is a country already oversaturated by pubs - the town of 6000 people I come from has 30+ pubs and I am only aware of 2 or 3 which have actually closed in the last 5 years (less than the average wastage cosidering the property boom)

I keep hearing about how takings are down by x % and the business is dying, but if approx 30 pubs are still open and doing business in a town of that size, when many of them could sell the premises to a property devloper then I would suggest the business is in ruder health than we are lead to believe

This is not to say that I would want to become a publican - it sounds like long hours, hard work in a very competitive field - but just to point out that the smoking ban remains a Good Thing in my book

[Brendan]

Anyone work in a local pub and have any info on takings since the ban?

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I like the fact that with all the smokers out on the street there is more of a street/carnival type atmosphere at the moment. One thing I like about many other countries is that people don't always feel the need to go somewhere, they congregate and hang about on the street, talking, selling food from braziers and BBQ's etc. I think the increase in street life could be a good thing, and might encourage a bit of social cohesion as we ask the hooded youth to budge up a bit for space on the nearby wall!

[Keef]

I seriously doubt it will have made any noticeable difference yet.

I did note that the inside of the CPT was totally empty on Sunday because we were all outside smoking, and those who didn't smoke came and sat with us, because they know who the really cool people are!!! ;-)

For the record, I actually seem to be smoking more when I'm out, which I am definitely noit happy about! You go out for a ciggie, and because you've made the effort, you double up. Then your mate comes out as you're finishing, so you have another one with him! You can't bloody win!!!!!!

Oh, and as for the health of the staff, the CPT staff made up most of our smoking table on Sunday :)-D

Not making any points there as such, just observations.

But as for anyone who actually moans because they have to walk past smoke on the way in/out the pub... Come on!!!!!!

[Louisa]

A friend of mine noted that since this ban came into effect, a segregation between smokers and non smokers was taking place at many pubs and clubs up and down the land. She also noted that in smaller groups, previous non smokers were now prepared to light up just so that they could join their friends outside and not feel left out. Could this smoking ban create more smokers as a result?

[macroban]

> In Boston the rule is that you can't smoke while standing still, so pavement smokers from pubs have to walk round the block while fagging it.

I had a look at www.cityofboston.gov to find the wording of the City Ordinance to see the possible effect if similar legislation was applied to East Dulwich.

I couldn't find anything.

Is this for real or an urban myth?

[Keef]

Wouldn't be surprised, it is America ;-)

CWALD makes a good point, I've stood and chatted to / shared a joke with blokes I've seen about, but would probably never have really talked to if we hadn't been stood out having a smoke.

[Louisa]

Are we talking about Boston, Lincolnshire or Boston, Mass. ?

[Brendan]

Never knew there was a US State called Lincolnshire.

[Siduhe]

macroban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > In Boston the rule is that you can't smoke while

> standing still, so pavement smokers from pubs have

> to walk round the block while fagging it.

>

> I had a look at www.cityofboston.gov to find the

> wording of the City Ordinance to see the possible

> effect if similar legislation was applied to East

> Dulwich.

>

> I couldn't find anything.

>

> Is this for real or an urban myth?

Can't speak for Boston, but there are a few places in Southern California which have "outdoor smoking bans" including Burbank and Santa Monica. The ordinance says something like you must be at least at least [20] feet away from any "path of travel, door or place where people congregate" and if you are asked to put your cigarette out by someone within [20] feet you must either do so or move on - hence the only real solution if you're in a built up area is to keep moving and stay off the main streets.

[Louisa]

I never knew there was a US state called Boston!

[macroban]

Thanks, Sidhue.

That could be really interesting for East Dulwich if this is the next increment in no-smoking legislation.

It made me wonder which local pubs have the longest blocks to "walk around". The Plough and Crystal Palace Tavern?

[Brendan]

I don?t see a problem in ED. All the pubs are relatively close together so you will just have to pub crawl. 1 or 2 pints in one and then off for a smoke and a walk to the next pub.

Or you could just alternate between the CPT and the Castle all day. Maybe even hang out with 2 different groups of people.