Trains cancellations - latest

[Bic Basher]

andyjake Wrote:

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> Southern drivers are stopping overtime from

> Wednesday. Does this mean we are back to 1 train

> an hour in peak time? I couldn't work out the

> timetable.

Thursday and Friday:

No Beckenham Junction or peak services from Wimbledon, so only 2 trains per hour from West Croydon.

Services from Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park aren't affected.

From 3rd July.

As above, except a reduction of services from Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park from 4tph to 2tph to London Bridge.

[andyjake]

Thanks. When I looked at the emergency timetable it looked like they were still running most of the trains but I guess not. Gutted. I had got used to have a normal timetable.

[DulwichLondoner]

ASLEF has instructed its members not to work overtime, starting this Thursday, 29-Jun-2017.

http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/dispute

http://www.aslef.org.uk/article.php?group_id=5564

Southern will be cancelling some services, and amending others (eg removing some stops).

There are some details on its website, but I wouldn't be surprised if they change again.

Based on what is published now, the services from East Dulwich are on the 'brown' lines, which means a reduces service. How reduced, no one knows yet!

I feel for the poor people commuting from Brighton!

[Bic Basher]

Southern, especially from Monday will attempt to run at least two trains per hour to most stations on the Metro lines.

It's going to be the same situation where there will be more trains from East Dulwich on a Saturday than the working week.

[Bic Basher]

Tomorrow's timetable appears to be worse than expected during the morning peak.

Direct trains are at 0617, 0655, 0730, 0830 and 0930, then every 30 minutes at x50 and x20.

Evening peak from London Bridge is 1711, 1809, 1851.

A normal Southern service is operating from Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park.

[d.b]

It beggars belief. How is 8am-9am "overtime" for anyone? The answer is basically, it's not. The line through ED is clearly the least important for Southern, so any time they have an excuse, they cancel trains.

Our trains are already DOO. These services are not running on staff overtime. There is nothing about this strike or dispute that directly affects our morning commuter services, but we always end up with these massive reductions in service.

[Penguin68]

How is 8am-9am "overtime" for anyone?

It probably depends on how you operate and time your shifts. In a 3 shift (24 hour) system anytime could be overtime for someone working in another shift. As it could also be for staff working on a 7 day week (as trains operate) when any day over 5 counts as overtime. As it could be on a two shift/ split shift system. What the train operator is probably dong however is re-allocating trains so that the same number of trains is running each day as they have staff employed (without overtime). My guess is that to achieve seven day operation staff are often working 6 days a week, not five. So you could have staff on 'overtime' working at any time on a particular day.

[DulwichLondoner]

Relying extensively on overtime was an arrangement that suited both parties well: SouthernFail found it cheaper than hiring more staff, and the unions were happy that its members would get paid more.

8am to 9am can easily be overtime; rail workers, like nurses, don't work 9-5 5 days a week, but have different shifts!

Basically Southern couldn't guarantee all services, and decided to prioritise some lines over others.

[rendelharris]

d.b Wrote:

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> It beggars belief. How is 8am-9am "overtime" for

> anyone? The answer is basically, it's not. The

> line through ED is clearly the least important for

> Southern, so any time they have an excuse, they

> cancel trains.

>

> Our trains are already DOO. These services are not

> running on staff overtime. There is nothing about

> this strike or dispute that directly affects our

> morning commuter services, but we always end up

> with these massive reductions in service.

Certainly shouldn't be, but as mentioned on another thread, in order to maximise profits Southern have chosen for years to run down staff numbers (some estimates put them at 80% of proper capacity) and rely on staff overtime instead (in which employees were to an extent complicit as it meant a better weekly pay packet). A ridiculous model which was bound to go wrong as soon as goodwill between company and unions soured (abetted by petty removal of staff privileges such as free carparking and family travel).

[Abe_froeman]

Penguin I think when the news recently reported on Southern drivers turning down the proposed ?75,000 a year pay packet it was mentioned that salary was based on working a 4 day week and one day of overtime.

[Abe_froeman]

"Under the deal, revealed in Friday?s Standard, GTR, Southern?s parent company, offered its 1,000 drivers a pay increase of 23.8 per cent over four years ? taking basic salaries for the existing 35-hour, four-day week from ?49,001 to ?60,683.

Most drivers work a regular fifth day as overtime and for that they receive an additional 25 per cent pay, taking the fourth-year salaries to more than ?75,000."

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/southern-drivers-reject-75000-pay-deal-and-reinstate-overtime-ban-a3568026.html

[rendelharris]

And if you read the whole article, ASLEF have stated that they never asked for the safety issue to be bundled with pay talks, and they have rejected the attempt to have them accept a generous pay offer as a trade-off for dropping their safety concerns. Which is quite principled, really.

[Gilloc]

Anyone know whats going on with google maps, everyday it shows full service is operating. Usually so reliable

Edit- just looked this morning and they have the correct information. Finally

[wroed]

Can someone please confirm how busy the 8.30am East Dulwich to London Bridge is during the week under the revised limited timetable?

I've been catching the 6.17am, which despite always being a few minutes late is fine, but checking whether it's even viable to head in later. Cheers.

[BrandNewGuy]

There's no problem getting on the 8.30 at the moment. A seat or two free in most carriages and plenty of standing room.

[wroed]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> There's no problem getting on the 8.30 at the

> moment. A seat or two free in most carriages and

> plenty of standing room.

Thank you!

[DulwichLondoner]

I am honestly surprised. Why do you think trains are not more packed? When trains used to run on time, I remember they were mostly OKish, i.e. not super-packed like on some other routes but never empty. Have people sort of given up and found alternative ways to get to work (eg buses, trains via Denmark Hill, etc?).

[Elphinstone's Army]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> There's no problem getting on the 8.30 at the

> moment. A seat or two free in most carriages and

> plenty of standing room.

Were you on the 8.30 train this morning? I was in the front carriage with a million other standing commuters, luckily all showered and clean clothes - a few alighted at Peckham Rye, but more took their places. It was packed tightly - the notion that there are seats available at that time on a busy commuter line seems fanciful.

[Elphinstone's Army]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

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> I am honestly surprised. Why do you think trains

> are not more packed? When trains used to run on

> time, I remember they were mostly OKish, i.e. not

> super-packed like on some other routes but never

> empty. Have people sort of given up and found

> alternative ways to get to work (eg buses, trains

> via Denmark Hill, etc?).

If one needs to get to work/whatever near London Bridge then East Dulwich is the station requirement, unless on the Thameslink. alighting at Blackfriars/Bankside, and walk, as Denmark Hill is the Victoria Line.

Buses from 8-9 are usually packed, and slow.

As many commuters posting here, I have tried different permutations over the last couple of years,and come unstuck a few times, and totally lost once or twice, it's frustrating of course and time consuming and nerve wracking - this is all well documented here. Squashed standing should not be a condition we are required to tolerate, immured in the morning is not a good start to the day, and why are the trains so short?

[Elphinstone's Army]

wroed Wrote:

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> Can someone please confirm how busy the 8.30am

> East Dulwich to London Bridge is during the week

> under the revised limited timetable?

>

> I've been catching the 6.17am, which despite

> always being a few minutes late is fine, but

> checking whether it's even viable to head in

> later. Cheers.

Perhaps you should try this time (8.30) for yourself one morning, as one man's packed train is another's plenty of space.

[KidKruger]

It's a disgrace. Animals would not be treated this way for fear of contravention of some regulation.

So, are trains regular again (several per hour) now or only hourly ?

[KrackersMaracas]

Does anyone have any idea when this might end? I've spent some time looking online for any sign of a resolution... but nada!

[DulwichLondoner]

Well, when I opened a thread

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1797543,page=1

asking if anyone else was considering leaving East Dulwich because of how poor transport links have become, quite a few people had a go at me.

"It's a common complaint but it doesn't hold much water"

"The situation has improved"

"It's not as bad as you're saying"

"Leave home earlier" (and what about kids/nurseries/schools etc?)

"Use alternative routes" (what alternative routes??)

Someone even accused me of something crazy like not being committed to Dulwich (I am married to my wife, not to Dulwich!)

It's hard to have honest discussions about these topics because most people want to convince themselves and others that wherever they live is the best place on earth, that they chose to buy there not because it was a reasonable compromise of budget desires and needs, but because their financial acumen has made them discover this area which is turning out to be the best investment ever, etc.

It's for reasons like these that I hear things like Peckham is better than South Kensington (no, it's not), from Bromly to central London it takes only 10 minutes (by helicopter, maybe), Dulwch is very well connected and Southern is working OK, etc.

I seem to be among the very few people to admit that the main reason I no longer live in zone 1, like I used to many moons ago when I was younger, is because I can no longer afford it. Everyone else could, but simply chose to live in Nowhereshire not because it's cheaper, but because it's "better"...

[magnificentstan]

Although East Dulwich is my closest station, I don't even bother trying to get the train during strikes. Instead I head to Forest Hill on the 176 or 185 and get a Southern train to London Bridge from there. For some reason, Southern trains seem to be plentiful from that station at peak commute times. This morning I think there were Southern trains at 8:45, 8:53 and 9:01am!

[BrandNewGuy]

Elphinstone's Army Wrote:

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> BrandNewGuy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > There's no problem getting on the 8.30 at the

> > moment. A seat or two free in most carriages

> and

> > plenty of standing room.

>

>

> Were you on the 8.30 train this morning? I was in

> the front carriage with a million other standing

> commuters, luckily all showered and clean clothes

> - a few alighted at Peckham Rye, but more took

> their places. It was packed tightly - the notion

> that there are seats available at that time on a

> busy commuter line seems fanciful.

Yes I was. Four carriages back. Don't get on the first carriage!