squatters on goose green (Lounged)

[????]

oh the middle classes squabling amongst themselves, loving it

[Meld]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> It wasn't designed to allow freeloading students

> not pay the same bills everyone else has to.

>

There is no such thing as ?the same bills as everyone else? when it comes to housing in this country, though is there? There is no parity, what we actually have is a market that discriminates against anyone born after about a certain date by forcing them to pay more and more ridiculously inflated sums whether for home ownership or a rental property, all the while selling them the line that high prices are because of a shortage of housing.

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people who are getting so worked up about this issue are probably property owners who realise that they are part of the giant ponzi scheme that is the British housing market, and that they literally cannot afford for younger generations to refuse to play the game.

To have more than 5k empty homes in one borough alone is both immoral and insane.

[????]

ASPIRING HOMEOWNERS OF THE WORLD UNITE

[Liberality10]

ImpetuousVrouw Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How ugly and frightening is the suburban

> hysterical lynch-mob?

>

> Why don't you all take a pill and go back to

> wondering if magnolia walls are still passe or

> not, instead of ganging up on these guys?

>+1

+2!

[Liberality10]

Meld Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Huguenot Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > It wasn't designed to allow freeloading

> students

> > not pay the same bills everyone else has to.

> >

>

> There is no such thing as ?the same bills as

> everyone else? when it comes to housing in this

> country, though is there? There is no parity, what

> we actually have is a market that discriminates

> against anyone born after about a certain date by

> forcing them to pay more and more ridiculously

> inflated sums whether for home ownership or a

> rental property, all the while selling them the

> line that high prices are because of a shortage of

> housing.

>

> I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of

> people who are getting so worked up about this

> issue are probably property owners who realise

> that they are part of the giant ponzi scheme that

> is the British housing market, and that they

> literally cannot afford for younger generations to

> refuse to play the game.

>

> To have more than 5k empty homes in one borough

> alone is both immoral and insane.

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY

[FatherJack]

Liberality 10 are you GGS in disguise.......??

[paulino]

@Liberality10 or squatters

Sorry, the more I read from you guys the more turned off I become. I consider myself 'liberal' and open-minded, I am in my 20s so hopefully not an old reactionary fogey, and I really want to support you and be 'on your side'. Maybe you're just not able to articulate yourselves very well, but there seems to be nothing really compelling or credible in your defence for what you are doing. It seems to boil down to 1) we saw an empty house 2) we want to live in it 3) we aren't displaying outward signs of antisocial behaviour to our neighbours and 4) so anyone who thinks we can't live in this house can piss off. That's nowhere near enough to convince me, and clearly not enough to convince many others here.

[Liberality10]

paulino Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> @Liberality10 or squatters

>

> Sorry, the more I read from you guys the more

> turned off I become. I consider myself 'liberal'

> and open-minded, I am in my 20s so hopefully not

> an old reactionary fogey, and I really want to

> support you and be 'on your side'. Maybe you're

> just not able to articulate yourselves very well,

> but there seems to be nothing really compelling or

> credible in your defence for what you are doing.

> It seems to boil down to 1) we saw an empty house

> 2) we want to live in it 3) we aren't displaying

> outward signs of antisocial behaviour to our

> neighbours and 4) so anyone who thinks we can't

> live in this house can piss off. That's nowhere

> near enough to convince me, and clearly not enough

> to convince many others here.

Please don't talk to me as if i am squatting the house, or doing something wrong.. I was merely trying to say my opinion, as are many other people. I saw this thread and didn't think it was fair that people have started insulting the GGS, also there is no need for it, it is childish. And I am sure you all consider yourselves pretty mature? Then go about this like adults, and quit with the petty banter! I didn't say anything about anyone who thinks the GGS can't live there can piss off, again you are putting words into peoples mouths. Obviously I agree, that if the owners inquire about the property and go to lengths to get it back, then of course, the squatters should move on. But, the squatters have said this, and people are pretending that they are being threatening, I think, because they do not have an actual reason why they do not want the squatters in the building. It doesn't fall into their idea of ED!

[Mark]

Has anyone mentioned buggies, Waitrose or organic coffee yet?

[helena handbasket]

Meld Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Huguenot Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > It wasn't designed to allow freeloading

> students

> > not pay the same bills everyone else has to.

> >

>

> There is no such thing as ?the same bills as

> everyone else? when it comes to housing in this

> country, though is there? There is no parity, what

> we actually have is a market that discriminates

> against anyone born after about a certain date by

> forcing them to pay more and more ridiculously

> inflated sums whether for home ownership or a

> rental property, all the while selling them the

> line that high prices are because of a shortage of

> housing.

>

> I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of

> people who are getting so worked up about this

> issue are probably property owners who realise

> that they are part of the giant ponzi scheme that

> is the British housing market, and that they

> literally cannot afford for younger generations to

> refuse to play the game.

>

> To have more than 5k empty homes in one borough

> alone is both immoral and insane.

Nice guess but nope, much smarter with my hard earned money than that. Way to generalize about anyone over 25 though.

The point about the parity of bills is pointless because I for one am talking about proportion of income that goes to covering your most basic living expenses. So....... if a student has "X" amount of money to live on and living costs "x+1" then it doesn't really matter what place or time one is talking about. A poor student is a poor student. Living in a sh*thole and eating cheap food because that's all you can afford is a part of student life for loads of people. Blaming everyone older than you for the problems of the world isn't exactly original.

I don't know what I was supposed to learn by reading the squatter's posts since they just keep saying that squatting is legal yada yada yada. Enlighten me........ I don't think I'm the the only one confused by what exactly you stand for. I'm sure it's all very serious and deep.

I'm on the edge of my seat........

[davidhealy]

And my faith in ED has been restored.

Finally some sense around here - squatters out!

[thebestnameshavegone]

Why can't people live exactly the same life I choose to lead?

I used to be a socialist, but post-30, post-child and post-overpriced SE22 house I'm not so sure anymore.

Not in my back yard!

[Liberality10]

helena handbasket Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Meld Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Huguenot Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > >

> > > It wasn't designed to allow freeloading

> > students

> > > not pay the same bills everyone else has to.

> > >

> >

> > There is no such thing as ?the same bills as

> > everyone else? when it comes to housing in this

> > country, though is there? There is no parity,

> what

> > we actually have is a market that discriminates

> > against anyone born after about a certain date

> by

> > forcing them to pay more and more ridiculously

> > inflated sums whether for home ownership or a

> > rental property, all the while selling them the

> > line that high prices are because of a shortage

> of

> > housing.

> >

> > I would hazard a guess that the vast majority

> of

> > people who are getting so worked up about this

> > issue are probably property owners who realise

> > that they are part of the giant ponzi scheme

> that

> > is the British housing market, and that they

> > literally cannot afford for younger generations

> to

> > refuse to play the game.

> >

> > To have more than 5k empty homes in one borough

> > alone is both immoral and insane.

>

> Nice guess but nope, much smarter with my hard

> earned money than that. Way to generalize about

> anyone over 25 though.

>

> The point about the parity of bills is pointless

> because I for one am talking about proportion of

> income that goes to covering your most basic

> living expenses. So....... if a student has "X"

> amount of money to live on and living costs "x+1"

> then it doesn't really matter what place or time

> one is talking about. A poor student is a poor

> student. Living in a sh*thole and eating cheap

> food because that's all you can afford is a part

> of student life for loads of people. Blaming

> everyone older than you for the problems of the

> world isn't exactly original.

>

> I don't know what I was supposed to learn by

> reading the squatter's posts since they just keep

> saying that squatting is legal yada yada yada.

> Enlighten me........ I don't think I'm the the

> only one confused by what exactly you stand for.

> I'm sure it's all very serious and deep.

>

> I'm on the edge of my seat........

This is what i don't understand. What do you think you are achieving by being rude to the squatters, and putting down their cause. I'll be happy to enlighten you as you seem so ignorant. What you were meant to see from reading the squatters posts over, is that they have not threatened anything or made any rude comments, (which is more than can be said by you and others), which a lot of you have tried to make out. They have quite clearly given you all the information each of you asked and stated that they don't want trouble. Personally I think you need to grow up and find something more important to get so worked up about.

[Meld]

helena handbasket Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Meld Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Huguenot Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > >

> > > It wasn't designed to allow freeloading

> > students

> > > not pay the same bills everyone else has to.

> > >

> >

> > There is no such thing as ?the same bills as

> > everyone else? when it comes to housing in this

> > country, though is there? There is no parity,

> what

> > we actually have is a market that discriminates

> > against anyone born after about a certain date

> by

> > forcing them to pay more and more ridiculously

> > inflated sums whether for home ownership or a

> > rental property, all the while selling them the

> > line that high prices are because of a shortage

> of

> > housing.

> >

> > I would hazard a guess that the vast majority

> of

> > people who are getting so worked up about this

> > issue are probably property owners who realise

> > that they are part of the giant ponzi scheme

> that

> > is the British housing market, and that they

> > literally cannot afford for younger generations

> to

> > refuse to play the game.

> >

> > To have more than 5k empty homes in one borough

> > alone is both immoral and insane.

>

> Nice guess but nope, much smarter with my hard

> earned money than that. Way to generalize about

> anyone over 25 though.

>

> The point about the parity of bills is pointless

> because I for one am talking about proportion of

> income that goes to covering your most basic

> living expenses. So....... if a student has "X"

> amount of money to live on and living costs "x+1"

> then it doesn't really matter what place or time

> one is talking about. A poor student is a poor

> student. Living in a sh*thole and eating cheap

> food because that's all you can afford is a part

> of student life for loads of people. Blaming

> everyone older than you for the problems of the

> world isn't exactly original.

>

> I don't know what I was supposed to learn by

> reading the squatter's posts since they just keep

> saying that squatting is legal yada yada yada.

> Enlighten me........ I don't think I'm the the

> only one confused by what exactly you stand for.

> I'm sure it's all very serious and deep.

>

> I'm on the edge of my seat........

Actually, I don't think it was your post that I quoted. And as I wasn't responding directly to your post, I wasn't talking specifically about student budgets or bills, but rather about the lack of affordable living options, whether rental or owned. So, rather than sit at the edge of your seat, why not wind your neck in and climb back into your box?

As for what I stand for - although I am confused as to whether this is aimed at me or not as I found it quite difficult to decipher your post - the best way to sum that up would be as an advocate of affordable housing. But unfortunately I think that too many people (politicians included) in Britain have a vested interest in the cost of housing remaining high, in proportion to average income.

Finally, it is extremely simplistic to say 'yes, but student have always had to eat baked beans', or some such nonsense. Students haven't always graduated with average debts of ?20k+ into the tail end of the worst recession since the Great Depression of the 1930s.

[helena handbasket]

I did. Roughly ?23,000 in fact. Paid it off in 8 years on a very modest salary. Don't tell me how hard life can be.

Meld, not much directed at you at all. Yes affordable housing is a serious issue, but not one that will be solved by claiming a house that has clearly not been abandoned.

I think I have a better sense of the injustices of the world than you are suggesting: I work with refugee families who are at the same time coping with the loss of family members through hideous brutality, dealing with their own medical issues from brutality (missing limbs, eyes etc. and that's just the physical stuff) and adapting to a new life in a new culture. THAT'S a serious issue to me. Not quite the Daily Mail magnolia walled villain you were hoping for.

A bunch of able bodied young people bitching about the cost of living as if they were the first people to have to consider packing 10 people into a small flat ......... are you kidding me?

Get back in my box? You need to get some perspective and grow up.

FUNNY enough, I was behind the concept of squatting until I started to read this thread ............

[TE44]

Helena, How would you feel if it was refugees squattin the house, would that be okay then.

[helena handbasket]

Is the issue here about squatting in general or about this particular situation? As I mentioned earlier, I was not conceptually against squatting before. It's the attitude and motivation that are the problem here.

TE44, that's not meant to be a serious question is it? It's a bit more complex than that wouldn't you agree?

[reggie]

What is the cause that the squatters are standing up for?

[Meld]

helena handbasket Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I did. Roughly ?23,000 in fact. Paid it off in

> 8 years on a very modest salary. Don't tell me

> how hard life can be.

>

> Meld, not much directed at you at all. Yes

> affordable housing is a serious issue, but not one

> that will be solved by claiming a house that has

> clearly not been abandoned.

>

> I think I have a better sense of the injustices of

> the world than you are suggesting: I work with

> refugee families who are at the same time coping

> with the loss of family members through hideous

> brutality, dealing with their own medical issues

> from brutality (missing limbs, eyes etc. and

> that's just the physical stuff) and adapting to a

> new life in a new culture. THAT'S a serious issue

> to me. Not quite the Daily Mail magnolia walled

> villain you were hoping for.

>

> A bunch of able bodied young people bitching

> about the cost of living as if they were the first

> people to have to consider packing 10 people into

> a small flat ......... are you kidding me?

>

> Get back in my box? You need to get some

> perspective and grow up.

>

> FUNNY enough, I was behind the concept of

> squatting until I started to read this thread

> ............

Your post doesn't make any sense. You say you support affordable housing, but then go off on condescending rant about any demographic that might be affected by the issue - oh, sorry, that's unless they are missing limbs. You say you support squatting - on what grounds then, given the diatribe that you have just followed that statement up with? You then lambast people for making assumptions about you - while continuing to make endless assumptions yourself - how do you know the Goose Green Squatters have no mental or physical disabilities? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps they don't want to give lots of personal details about their circumstances over a public forum?

And how exactly is the plight of refugee families relevant to my post about the increasing cost of living and the political reasons that may be behind some people squatting? Full marks for working in a worthwhile job, congratulations, but it doesn't give you some sort of moral high ground when discussing affordable housing and the rising cost of living, which is a completely separate issue. What is the point of you telling me about the missing limbs your clients have? There are many problems that affect people in many areas of society - not all of them involve war, refugees or mutilation - but again so what? Should they not be addressed? What relevance does this have? Your posts smack of 'the youth of today' and yet at the same time you're at pains to point out that you're not a Daily Mail reader.

As for telling me to get some perspective and grow up - again, assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. I'm in my thirties and I work full time, but that doesn't mean that I am incapable of seeing things from the perspective of other demographics.

One person or group of people squatting will not make housing affordable - but it is a form of direct action, isn't it? And the more people there are that take direct action, the more I chance I think there is that a Government will eventually act.

[*Bob*]

Meld Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

And the more people there

> are that take direct action, the more I chance I

> think there is that a Government will eventually

> act.

If it's a form of direct action then surely it would make more sense to squat on government property?

[helena handbasket]

So Meld, that makes us roughly of a similar age?

Interesting.

[reggie]

Is this a political act by the squatters?

[Dulwich_ Park_ Fairy]

Surely by turning a large house into several smaller, more affordable flats the owner of the squat is doing his upmost to ease the housing problem and should be congratulated for his/her own "direct action"? The lazy students/heroic activists would seem to be hampering this process because they want to live in a nice big house free of charge as part of some larger, yet undefined "cause"? Unleash the dogs I say......

[TE44]

Yes Helena it is a serious question, I agree, from the help recieved by people like yourself to the inhumane conditions of detention centres, a criteria is somehow put in place. You know nothing of the GGS backgrounds but seem to have made a very stereotypical judgement, and set some imaginary criteria for the GGS.

[Meld]

Dulwich_ Park_ Fairy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Surely by turning a large house into several

> smaller, more affordable flats the owner of the

> squat is doing his upmost to ease the housing

> problem and should be congratulated for his/her

> own "direct action"? The lazy students/heroic

> activists would seem to be hampering this process

> because they want to live in a nice big house free

> of charge as part of some larger, yet undefined

> "cause"? Unleash the dogs I say......

Are the squatters hampering the process though? Have they already been asked to leave? I may have missed some of their posts.

James Barber posted that there are 5k empty properties already in Southwark. So is creating another 1-2 actually solving a problem? Or is the problem much more complicated than this?