Toddler car seat - wriggling shoulder out, what to do?

[Sanne Panne]

My 20 month old keeps wriggling one of her shoulders out of the harness of her Maxi Cosi (Tobi). I think the height adjustment is correct and it doesn't seem to make a difference whether I strap her in more or less tightly. Am I doing something wrong?

Do those pieces that connect the shoulder straps at chest height exist for toddler car seats (I've seen them on the smaller rear facing seats) and if so what are they called? Something like that might make it harder to wriggle out. Hard to look for something if you don't know the name though and I haven't seen them on the "car seat accessories" / "shoulder strap covers" pages I've looked at so far.

Thanks for any help/advice!

[nymom]

My son (21 months) did the same with the Tobi and after some research on the internet I found many similar complaints. I even went back to John Lewis to see if I could exchange the seat based on my experience and was told I just need to tell my son not to do it and he will stop. Not much help. In the end the strap on my Tobi broke (stopped pulling out so couldn't adjust) and I got a Priori in exchange. Although he has been able to do it very occasionally with this seat I have found it was only when the straps were not tight enough. Where as I would tighten the straps again and again on the Tobi and he could still get out. I know this isn't much help but I thought I would let you know you are not alone in this. In the US Britax seats come with a second clip across the chest called a "HUGS" strap which unfortunately they do not come with here. Those straps have made it totally impossible for my son to get out. I have not seen them for sale separately though.

[echo]

My toddler does the same! I did not realise there was a design fault!

Not sure what to do, maybe a email to maxi cosi hq!

Surely, they should not be selling their Tobi seats until a modification has been made? It is a pretty basic requirement that our little ones can not wriggle their arms out.

[Fuschia]

Our twins wriggle out of both of the seats we have, one is a Britax evolva, the other is an old fashioned maxi cosi priori. I think it's just a feature of the design... I try to make myself feel better that the waist part stops them getting totally out of the seats!

[Fuschia]

Britax's response, found on the net:

Thank you for your email and we are sorry to hear of the difficulty you are experiencing with your child wriggling out of his harness straps.

Chest clips are not tested and approved to ECE R44 so are not allowed to be used and have not been crash tested with European approved products. They are allowed to be used in the USA as this is part of the regulation.

As we are sure you will appreciate, all child seat sold in Europe must comply with the legal requirements of the European Standard ECE R44 so the potential for a child to wriggle out of the shoulder straps does exist irrespective of the make or model. The position of the buckle is strictly governed by the standard in that the location of the lap section of the harness must not be able to rise above the pelvis of even the smallest occupant so as to offer best protection in an accident situation: The Standard also requires that both shoulder straps must separate with a single action on the red button, hence any for of linking device between the straps is not legal in Europe. Again, these aspects of the design are beyond our control.

Whilst the instances of child escape are low in relation to the number of seats sold, it is obviously distressing to parents like yourself and of great concern to us. Having made a careful study of the techniques employed by parents, and the advice given by independent bodies such as RoSPA, we have the following advice that many have found successful when dealing with an escaping child. Independent advice from RoSPA can be found at: http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/choosing/common_problems.htm#undoes

Although I appreciate that you are probably already doing this it is worth pointing out that in practice, poor adjustment of a restraint is a major factor in the occurrence of child escape, particularly with the younger child. Please make sure that the correct shoulder height is set and that harness adjustment is correct and in line with the user guide.

Unfortunately, there are some instances where determined children can release themselves from their seats and will manage to do so even when a restraint is correctly adjusted. In these circumstances it is often necessary to find out why the child wants to get out to enable you to adopt the most effective approach for your own individual child.

In some cases boredom may be the root of the problem and fortunately this is likely to be the easiest to address as there are many ways to occupy a child on a journey, some of which you probably already use. However, the following list of suggestions have proved successful for many parents, although them effectiveness may be dependent on the age and development of an individual child; favourite books and toys, story and song tapes, simple foods and drinks and regular breaks for longer journeys. It is possible to teach a toddler (development permitting) how dangerous it is be unrestrained. Also, accessories such as the play tray have also been developed to help keep a child occupied.

The most challenging scenario is that of a persistent child who does not want to be restrained in the car. However, in these instances, you as a parent know which method best works for your own child, just as you persuade them not to be tempted by other hazards that are only to apparent in a toddlers life (the electric socket, hot oven door, etc.,etc.). It may be necessary to exercise a degree of parental guidance with any form of restraint system, but perhaps this should be considered as a last resort.

In practice we have found that these methods will help overcome this difficult period and the child does eventually settle down and enjoy travelling in their child car seat.

[helena handbasket]

What a condescending load of beans!

Rather than acknowledge that they need to improve their product, they give you a list of ideas that every parent already knows about, and suggest that you explain to your toddler why they are strapped in? What toddler cares about or understands what that means? I realize they are working under the confines of the law but that puts the onus on them to design solutions, not throw their hands in the air and suggest a bit of creativity on your part. Are you supposed to be teaching them the finer points of being restrained while you are in the front seat driving? I'm chuckling to myself about how annoyed I am by that response!:) Sure I've taught my son about the hot oven door, but not while I'm trying to bloody drive in the front seat of a car!

We have a Britax that has honestly been the absolute best baby purchase of all of them, three years later and my huge son is still comfortably in it, but it's a North American model so does have the chest harness and I'm now thankful for that! Basically it's a five-point harness....... last I heard that was a GOOD thing. I guess that makes it illegal but I think it's a lot safer than trying to wrestle a strong child back into his car seat while I'm trying to drive.

Bonkers I say!

[Sanne Panne]

Hilarious what Britax writes, they basically say that if your child wriggles out of the straps you're a bad parent.

Did a bit more research, the strap connectors are indeed called "chest clips" on most websites and are illegal in the EU as an adult needs to be able to release a child with one single move... ummm I think that in a compromised situation I'd rather risk having trouble dealing with two clips than with a kid flying through the wind screen.

I found two brands that sell them outside the UK: "Hug It" and "Houdini Stop". Don't outbid me on eBay now please.

[helena handbasket]

I don't get it....... our chest clasp is one hand release so I KNOW they make one. It just happens to be awkward enough for him to reach and grasp that our otherwise feisty son hasn't bothered.

Now I'm curious about what ancient British "carriage" laws prohibit this.

Yet it appears to be perfectly acceptable to have a baby seat in the front seat. I see it every day. In Canada they would lock you up and throw away the key if a child was in the front seat, if you survived being tarred and feathered by anyone who witnessed it that is.

edited to add: I see the folly in my reasoning....... you can only have one clasp here. Hmmmmm, that seems like removing the smoke detectors from your house because the noise might cause ear damage! I wonder how they did their risk assessment!

[The Nappy Lady]

I know of a child that ended up paralysed from the waist down because he got shoulder straps off and in an accident therefore upper body was thrown forward.

Totally agree with above posts, better to have two clips to deal with in an emergency than this worry all the time.

Really hope you are able to find a solution, some habidashers sell those plastic clips so I wonder if you could create your own chest strap at a push? I imagine it would only be needed for a while, it is breaking the habit as much as anything.

Molly

[Fuschia]

The Nappy Lady Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know of a child that ended up paralysed from the

> waist down because he got shoulder straps off and

> in an accident therefore upper body was thrown

> forward.

Gawd, that's scary! Luckily mine only do it occasionally now.

[The Nappy Lady]

I know, it is one of those things that just stays with you.

My eldest did it once (after above had happened already), so I totally freaked out at her as a result, and she never ever did it again. Felt bad about it later of course, but if it shocked her into understanding how important being properly strapped in is I guess it wasn't the end of the world.

Makes me shudder to think that I used to sleep on the rear parcel shelf as a child whilst my parents drove down from the Midlands to Cornwall every summer, with brother and sister on the rear seat doing the same. Yikes.

Molly

[woofmarkthedog]

It.....

Is quite easy to make an item which attaches easily with velcro onto the chest area of the harness. Some strong fabric like denim or cotton duck cut in a V shape, with additional side flaps/ velcro fixed sleeves . This then goes over the existing straps & chest area thus stopping the arm coming through the strap.

Make a paper/ card template to suit first

It mustn't be attached into the straps, just around them ( if you catch my drift )

It's not to hard to do, make a couple.

One in the wash & one on

W**F

*yes & I do have a "blue peter badge" BTW before you ask, cheeky monkeys*

[Sanne Panne]

Good idea Woof, saves substantial money....

[njc97]

Or you could just handcuff your child's hands together, so they can't slip out.

There seems to be a lot of aggression on this thread - the Britax response highlighted why a chest strap would be illegal, and yet are still being attacked for not supplying one. And teaching your child to not climb out has to be the best solution. At some point they're going to be able to undo the buckle themselves - what are you going to do then? Add a padlock?

[helena handbasket]

I can add a padlock? Hmmmmmmm

Not sure I see the aggression you are referring to; seems that we get that it's illegal (in this country) but are discussing the validity of why, as parents are clearly finding this to be unsafe. If it was a safety issue rather than a legal one I wonder why Britax would then make a five-point version for the North American market. Either they believe it is unsafe and continue to make them elsewhere, or they believe they are safe and are bound by European law. Which is fine, I can deal with that. I speak for myself only, but my annoyance is then having Britax suggest that rather than find a way to improve design (which is the business they are in) they suggest that I should be turning to deal with the child in the backseat, who should be safely restrained, instead of safely keeping my eyes on the road ahead and mind on driving.

Also as Molly pointed out, things can quickly go very wrong. That is the whole POINT of having a child safely restrained.

[woofmarkthedog]

njc97 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Or you could just handcuff your child's hands

> together, so they can't slip out.

>

> There seems to be a lot of aggression on this

> thread - the Britax response highlighted why a

> chest strap would be illegal, and yet are still

> being attacked for not supplying one. And teaching

> your child to not climb out has to be the best

> solution. At some point they're going to be able

> to undo the buckle themselves - what are you going

> to do then? Add a padlock?

____________________________________________________

This..

...is an ironic response, right ?

Of course it is

Silly me..

W**F

[Sanne Panne]

I also think that you can teach your toddler a lot of things but they're always going to have moments when they try the "alternative option" anyway. That's part of their mission to explore the world. Even if my 20 month old listens to me 99 out of 100 times when it comes to safety, that's not enough when it comes to car safety. I need the straps to cover that other 1 time.

It is of course not Britax' fault that they don't sell the clips in the UK, it's the European law's "fault". We are more frustrated with the law than with Britax (at least I am) but I also find Britax' reply a bit silly and think it's fine to have a little go at them too ;)

Anyway, my car seat is a Maxi Cosi. Maybe I should write them and see what they say!

[twinmummy]

You can buy little velcro straps ready made by "velcro" from halfords - about 6 of them for ?2.99 - my twins are demon shoulder strap wrigglers and this has been our solution. Very impressed by the Blue Peter "one I made earlier" idea, just a touch short on time these days!!

[theames]

I would suggest the houdini stop Houdini Stop car seat chest strap

It connects to each strap of the car seat with simple mechanisms that can be done and undone with one hand.

Its been crash tested in Australia and has been approved by the ACRI.

We bought one for our 2yr son who no matter how tight we done the straps he would always wriggle his arms out of there. This piece of kit stopped the little escape artist and have no problems since

[theames]

Also at http://www.houdinistop.co.uk the price has been cut to 11.99

[theames]

www.houdinistop.co.uk works a treat

[Sanne Panne]

Got the Houdini Stop and it's great.