Southwark has delayed the schools decision because of the election

[ladywotlunches]

I thought that the original decision date for primary admissions this year was 29th April or so, but checking today, it appears that it is (now?) 10th May. Conveniently just after the Election, the cynic in me thinks.

The 'starting school' booklet online has the 10th may date, but I'm sure my original hard copy (which I can't find) had the April date.

Have the council moved the date to win more votes??? Lewisham (where i've also applied) seems to be sticking to its 21st April date, for now...

[Pecanpie]

Yes, they are chicken! Labour is campaigning for them to put it back to the origional date, and have it in line with neighbouring boroughs, but they clearly have so little faith in their ability to solve the school problem that they won't move it. I have been a bit surprised that they have gotten away with it, glad you raised it.

[ladywotlunches]

Ha - what a cheek! It's stressful enough having to wait this long anyway, let alone putting it back a couple of weeks. I'm actually one road away from Southwark in Lewisham now, but if I was voting, I'd not vote for the incumbents on that very principle!

[EDmummy]

I'm horrified that Lib Dem Southwark is allowed to move the date in this way. Does Cllr Barber have a response to this?

[nunheadmum]

The paper booklet from Southwark did say 10th May. I thought it was moved following last year's debacle, not since this year's process started. Totally agree though that it seems to be a political move linked to the elections.

I know I'll feel bad holding a Lewisham school when I know I probably won't use it but daren't release it just in case Southwark results go totally mad. But thanks to Southwark we won't really have any option!

[Smiler]

Have put a message on Cllr Barber's thread in the general section of the forum to ask him to respond. How stressful for people who are waiting.

[James Barber]

The delay was decied back in Autumn 2009. I was initially fuming. The explanation is that the officers who would respond to the queires that will result from primary school place announcements are needed to help run the elections. The expectation was that Gordon Brown would plump for local and national elections on the same day Thursday 6 May. So from 7am-10pm over 100 polling stations across Southwark will be open each taking several council officers at any point in time to run each one. Then all the ballot boxes have to be verified and then counted. This will take a number of hours that night for the parliamentary elections and finish sometime after 3am. Then everyone goes home for some sleep and returns to then count local elections ballot boxes throughout Friday 7 May from 11am. I should point out that the all officers involved in the elections process will receive training, briefings and typically be experienced which all involves time during pre election days.

With such huge numbers of experienced council officers diverted to running these elections means no resources left to answer queries if primary school places released 29 April. Hence the delay until Monday 10 May.

Clearly Southwark Council could employ temps for a period of time to allow 29 April release but what would we cut to cover this avoidable extra expense? Equally, we don;t want inexperienced temps dealing with queries about school places.

[ladywotlunches]

Of course there will be some queries, but surely for the vast majority of applications, the process should be straightforward?

Wouldn't a better option have been to keep the original release date, but make parents aware that any queries could only be dealt with from 10th May? Then (say) 70% of families would know where they stand, and would be able to relax for a couple more weeks. And those that don't want to know either way until they can talk to someone, could simply keep the envelope unopened until 10th May :)

And as Nunhead mum said, this would also have had the effect of not pushing further delays onto neighbouring boroughs, for parents who know the decision of some schools but can't make an informed choice until Southwark spills the beans. Or is this all far too sensible and efficent?

[intexasatthe moment]

How are other London boroughs - surely in same position - managing without postponing date ?

[ladywotlunches]

Excellent point!!!

[VikkiM]

I don?t think James' explanation washes at all. In fact he is on the forum giving a different explanation for the delay here.

One of the problems that became clear last year was that Southwark had less staff in its admissions teams than other neighbouring councils and this had probably contributed to some of the confusion and poor communication. At the scrutiny meeting held last October (which some forumites attended) we were given assurances that three extra permanent staff would be appointed to the admissions team to help ensure a smoother admissions procedure this year. Following various enquiries by Labour councillors I understand that these extra staff were still not in place in February and were not expected to be in place until March. Additional support was instead being provided by some temporary agency staff ? the very ?inexperienced? staff James now claims he doesn't want administering the process. On ?cuts? this strikes me as a throw away comment especially as the council put out a press release back in January promising, from memory, a further four or five staff for the admissions team so clearly there is a plan to find the money from somewhere at some point.

I?m afraid I think the decision is deeply cynical.

However, although I?m very angry about this I also keen not to cause parents any additional worry to that they may already feel about the admissions process.

There were problems last year but I think the great response of parents to do their applications online and on time will have helped the process. I also think there is money and some planning in place to allow for ?bulge? classes at local schools to help cope with the high ratio of children to school places in our area. And whilst I don?t for one second want to say everything will be okay, I have found a huge level of anxiety from parents many of whom, if you look at how close they live to schools and the distance of last year?s further child admitted, should be pretty confident about getting a place at their local school. Of course this isn?t true for everyone and there are definitely some areas where parents and children may be more reliant on the ?bulge? classes.

For me there are three strong arguments for sticking with the usual date, or if anything to have worked to get allocations out on an earlier date this year. The first is that with the strong likelihood of bulge classes in local schools it would allow schools a few more weeks to prepare and would help ensure that schools and children were ready for the start of the new year. Last year I think the Headteacher at Goodrich missed most of her summer holiday. If you are trying to find additional teachers in June or July you don?t always end up with the pick of the best teachers. There is ?12million sat in a council bank account to build permanent new classrooms or to refit old ?mothballed? rooms ? I?m keen that we get this spent.

Secondly, I think that sticking to an April date would have concentrated the Lib Dems? and council officers? minds to get the process right this year. Knowing the election would take place a few weeks later would have ensured that the promised extra permanent staff were in place much earlier and that council resources were spent on something that is clearly important to our area. I imagine every application would have been double-checked and that every parent who phoned with a problem in April would have been dealt with swiftly and politely. Of course, it shouldn?t have to be this way but the reality is that an April date would have ensured a ?gold star? service that I worry a May date may not.

Finally ? the knock on effect on neighbouring boroughs that others have mentioned, with some parents holding on to two or three places or other perhaps not getting their Lewisham choice then having added worried about their Southwark places.

Victoria

Peckham Rye Labour

(Just a typo edited 'of' to 'or'...)

[VikkiM]

Wow that's long... apologies :-$

[Smiler]

Have there been any public statements from the Council about this that could be posted here so that people can see the "official line"?

[James Barber]

You're correct that several reasons coming together to delay the announcement by five working days. Election resources, purdah and deciding which schools to press the bulge class buttons on. The election resources at the front of my mind having spent several very long meetings talking about the detailed processes related to the elections. If I'd responded tonight then suspect after planned two hour meeting talking about bulge classes this afternoon I'd have related that reason.

Some other authorities are releasing information earlier than Southwark. I've not had it confirmed but a reasonable source has told me Lewisham is short of 543 primary school places and will be spreading some reception places across school year classes to cope. Southwark has NO plans to take such drastic actions.

Lewisham will be sending their letters out 20 April but they don't appear to be trying to create normal extra reception classes 'bulge classes'.

The most important thing Southwark will be doing is ensuring we have all reception kids in reception classes. Having bulge classes and the distraction or purdah and supporting elections means a five working day delay is required.

[James Barber]

Westminster City Council works to 10 May.

Lambeth 24 April.

Greenwich 5 May.

The deadline for Southwark application was 23 January.

Many other authorities had earlier deadlines for applications but correspondingly send out confirmations earlier.

For example Croydon sent confirmation letters out 25 March but the deadline for applications was 4 December.

[ladywotlunches]

So Southwark make us wait and then we now have even more doubt on the results we might get earlier from other boroughs (ie Lewisham).

So much for a common application process. Why can't boroughs co-ordinate, and all ask for forms in by the same date, with the same announcement day? (Doesn't this happen with Secondary schools?)

[Fuschia]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The delay was decied back in Autumn 2009. I was

> initially fuming. The explanation is that the

> officers who would respond to the queires that

> will result from primary school place

> announcements are needed to help run the

> elections. The expectation was that Gordon Brown

> would plump for local and national elections on

> the same day Thursday 6 May. So from 7am-10pm over

> 100 polling stations across Southwark will be open

> each taking several council officers at any point

> in time to run each one. Then all the ballot boxes

> have to be verified and then counted. This will

> take a number of hours that night for the

> parliamentary elections and finish sometime after

> 3am. Then everyone goes home for some sleep and

> returns to then count local elections ballot boxes

> throughout Friday 7 May from 11am. I should point

> out that the all officers involved in the

> elections process will receive training, briefings

> and typically be experienced which all involves

> time during pre election days.

>

> With such huge numbers of experienced council

> officers diverted to running these elections means

> no resources left to answer queries if primary

> school places released 29 April. Hence the delay

> until Monday 10 May.

>

> Clearly Southwark Council could employ temps for a

> period of time to allow 29 April release but what

> would we cut to cover this avoidable extra

> expense? Equally, we don;t want inexperienced

> temps dealing with queries about school places.

I've worked in local government for many years and been deployed to work at polling stations and on the count.. but the number of council staff involved is not that huge, and the Council doesn't have to release staff from key sections like school admissions, if it's a critical time.

Even if there were 5 staff at each polling station and another 500 at the count, that would be just 1000 individuals from Southwark's workforce

[Pecanpie]

The Lib Dems explanations are bobbins. James, I understand you have to tow the line but they have lost a lot of trust/ good will over this. Any chance it could still be changed as a show of good faith/ to help neighbouring boroughs out?

[James Barber]

Really sad news that a huge blaze has wrecked Hatcham Temple Grove school in New Cross. It looks as though Lewisham Council no only have to find 543 reception school places more than they were expecting but also now 360 primary school places. What a disaster. Even more pressure on primary school places in South East London.

[James Barber]

Hi ladywotlunches,

I beleive Primary school admissions dates are processes are being merged for next year. One application form. This should mean that parents don;t hold school places in several boroughs taking up more than one offer per child making.

Hi Pecanpie,

I'm sorry you believe the delay this year resulting from adding extra buldge assessment compared to last year, purdah and election resources are 'bobbins'.

Hi Fuschia,

I'm curious which local authority didn't face any issues by losing 1,000 staff for a few days and when your experience related to. Personally I feel this proposition is unrealistic for Southwark. We have someting like 2,000 back office staff. Duting the last 12 months we've drstically reduced duplications by merging over 40 smaller office into one office on Tooley Street. So we have many hundreds fewer officers than ever before. Admissions are part of that back office. They have been expanded. But losing half of all back office people elections related activities will mean skeleton operations for many services.

[Fuschia]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Hi Fuschia,

> I'm curious which local authority didn't face any

> issues by losing 1,000 staff for a few days and

> when your experience related to. Personally I feel

> this proposition is unrealistic for Southwark. We

> have someting like 2,000 back office staff. Duting

> the last 12 months we've drstically reduced

> duplications by merging over 40 smaller office

> into one office on Tooley Street. So we have many

> hundreds fewer officers than ever before.

> Admissions are part of that back office. They have

> been expanded. But losing half of all back office

> people elections related activities will mean

> skeleton operations for many services.

1000 was my gross overestimate... my experience was of 2 or 3 staff at each polling station and only a few hundred at the count.. and the pool of staff this was drawn from included staff across many depts ands those who had retired (admittedly was a few years ago I last worked on an election but doubt it is that similar)

Would be interesting to know

a) How many staff Southwak is using for the election

b) How many of these are from the admissions team (if any)

c) Why they didn't just refuse to release any admissions staff (this is a voluntary additional activity and not all those who opt to work on the election get selected)

d) Why this problem has affected only one Borough in the whole of London!

[toast]

Hello All

Anyone worried about southwarks primary school admissions this year could join.....

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=ts&gid=120669739604

Tessa Jowell, James Barber etc have all posted updates here and it might be useful to have a place to unite.

Also anyone really naffed off about the timing of allocations might want to write to/ email their local MP's, it does get things moving!