Childcare dilemma - what would you (experienced parents) do?

[gufflings]

My boyfriend and I are having a dilemma about which direction to take with future childcare for our 3-month-old daughter and would really like to get some advice from parents who've been there and done that.

We are currently renting in East Dulwich and would like to stay in the area. I was planning to go back to work in January 2011 (when our daughter will be 3 weeks shy of 1 year old) but, from what I can glean from discussions on this forum, the nursery fees will virtually wipe out my take-home wage if I go back 4 days a week, thus preventing us from ever hoping to buy in the area. Plus the journey to drop my daughter off at nursery will add more time to my already painful commute to West Kensington (1 hour 45 mins at its worst). I don't really fancy our chances at finding a cheaper nursery in the West Kensington area to get around this problem, or the idea of taking her on such a long journey on public transport in rush-hour, so that's not an alternative.

Is there a council-run nursery in the East Dulwich area (I think there's one in West Dulwich - Elmwood Nursery?) where the fees might be lower? If so, do you think we've left it too late to get a place there in time for January 2011 - or indeed to get a place at any nursery in the area?

Our other option is to move to Twickenham and have my 65-year-old mum and dad care for her at vastly reduced/no cost. I know this sounds like a no-brainer, but neither of us remotely wants to live there. Plus, I worry that my parents have made this offer without realising the physical toll of looking after such a young child. I also worry that although we'd finally be able to get a mortgage (albeit in a place neither of us wants to be) and my journey to work would be a hell of a lot easier, my boyfriend's commute would be a lot worse (he currently cycles to his job in Kings Cross) and our daughter would be missing out on the interaction she'd get at nursery. My parents aren't the most sociable/outgoing folk ever, and I don't think they'd be great at taking her to baby and toddler groups, etc, in order to meet other children. On the other hand, they would be very flexible in terms of days/hours, we wouldn't have to leave her in the hands of strangers and she'd doubtless form a strong bond with her grandparents.

Of course, I could always not go back to work, but then we'd have no hope of buying anywhere decent and my pension would be b*ggered.

Argh!! Help!! What would you do?

[littleEDfamily]

Could your parents come and look after your daughter one or two days a week here in East Dulwich? Even just one day of saved childcare can make a big difference and I would always choose grandparents over anyone else if you have a half decent relationship with them and they are up for it (but 4 days is just too much even for the sprightly types).

If you can get through years 1 -3 (when your subsidy kicks in, although that certainly won't pay for all of it), I tend to think you're through the worst of it, and by 3 years old they definitely need the social interaction of a nursery/ pre-school.

There are some cheaper nurseries (I think one near Burgess Park in Peckham, which is apparently v good), but ?50 a day, whether it's a childminder/ nannyshare/ nursery is the very minimum you could hope to pay. My advice would be to stay where you want to be long term, and just muddle your way through it. I don't think you'll find a perfect solution, but the pain will be short term (if you only decide to have 1) and if you want more, you'll get some respite from the childcare dilemma during your second maternity leave (small mercies!!) The unfortunate thing about childcare is that you just don't know what is going to work until you try it. I was convinced what would work best would be a nursery close to work (Canary Wharf) - it wasn't, then I tried a nannyshare (I fired the nanny), then a combination of nanny and nursery (wasn't that impressed with either) and finally I just gave up and left my proper job, became self-employed and did most of the childcare myself (begging, borrowing and stealing help with the little one from friends or husband's leave etc etc). Other parents (but not many) seem to hit the jackpot from the start - I hope you are one of them!

Like many others on this forum, I tend to think a nannyshare/ childminder is preferable for under 2s (but still get your child's name on as many nursery lists as possible to keep your options open).

[gufflings]

Thanks so much for your speedy reply - we've been wrangling over this most of the day! (fun).

Unfortunately my parents don't have a car and my mother in particular is very reluctant to travel here on public transport - in fact, neither of them has come to visit since our daughter was born, we always have to go to theirs! I will ask, but I don't hold out much hope of a positive answer.

I hate to sound like a total novice, but what's the subsidy you mention? Do you mean childcare vouchers? I will be entitled to them through my work when I go back.

Will look into the nursery near Burgess Park. Does anyone else have/know a child/children who goes there? Will also look into a nannyshare/childminder. Yikes, loads of research to do.

I think we may only have one baby as this one was an IVF creation and I'm not sure we can spare funds for another shot when we need all the money we've got for a deposit on a flat (daughter was result of free go on NHS - we got lucky!). I suspected muddling through might be the answer. Have thought about going freelance but not sure how on earth I could fit work in around looking after a child - have great admiration for you!

Out of interest, which nursery weren't you impressed with? Was it recently?

[BellendenBear]

Camberwell Grove early years centre is a council run nursery. Works out ?41 per day if there 5 days. I put our daughter's name down last March/April and she got a place for January.

[echo]

I've returned to work p/t. Granny looks after our little one for one day and she is at a childminders for two days. He is very good, yes a he! and costs ?40 per day (he is based on Telegraph Hill). So good child minders are out there.. just keep looking. I found the process very, very stressful! as I saw a lot of 'bad' ones in my opinion..

Also I found that at a year old, my baby seemed a lot more robust and ready for more social engagement. She loves playing with the other children. The down side has been, she has been ill more, which creates a new dilemma of who takes the ad-hoc time off!

Also remember you can claim the child care tax rebate thingy, which can save you up to ?900 per year. Can you phase going back to work? i.e. three days for a few months, then four days if it feels right??

Finding the right child care is obviously very important, but I did not get it completely sorted until I went back. Obviously plan for returning to work, but enjoy your life with your baby as it is today, tomorrow, next week, next month and even next year etc.

p.s Our Granny is the same, she has never visited us in our current place, as she does not do public transport. We have to drop off; suited and booted... but it is to Battersea not Twickenham

[redjam]

I'd definitely look into nannyshares with a baby so young - it shouldn't be more than ?50 a day for your share and the hours would be tailored to suit you (i.e. you'll only have to pay for 4 days if you're going back to work 4 days a week, and you can come to an arrangement to pay extra if you need to work late some nights or whatever). You've got built-in care if your daughter is sick too, though not so good if the nanny is ill! I know a lot of people swear by nurseries (and I would never criticise anyone else's childcare choice as everyone has different criteria), but personally I think they're better for older kids, i.e two or three upwards, as in my opinion younger babies need more one-to-one care and stability.

Any 'official' childcare, i.e. Ofsted-registered nanny, childminder or nursery, can be paid using childcare vouchers which are deducted from your salary before tax, thus saving nearly a grand a year if you use your full allowance (?243 a month). Also, when your child reaches the age of three, they are entitled to 12.5 hours a week of free nursery childcare (I think this is rising to 15 hours a week in September - can anyone confirm this?). So as a previous poster said, if you can swallow the financial pain for the next two years, it does get easier, especially if you're not likely to have more kids. And your social life goes to hell for the first couple of years when you have kids anyway, so you save money that way - hooray (sort of).

As for your moving dilemma, if you did move back to Twickenham I'm sure you'd 'bond' with the area quickly. There's nothing like having a child for helping you to make friends in a new area - I should know, after moving here not knowing a soul just when my second child was born, and now feeling like I've lived here all my life. Also you could use a mixture of nursery provision some days and grandparent care on others so your child gets lots of social interaction - though that's probably not a big issue when she's so little at the moment anyway. But of course who could bear to leave East Dulwich and the loving support of the EDF?!

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

[samstopit]

When your child turns three (s)he is entitled to 12.5 hours free at nursery per week, regardless of whether it's a private nursery or not. Makes a huge difference. Praying the next Government doesn't scrap it ...

[Fuschia]

It will be 15h free from this year, from the term after your chidl turning 3.

Is there any possibility of you doing flexible working? Eg you start work very early, and end early, so your daughter needs just a half day nursery place... or do three long days perhaps - 8am-6pm sort of thing? TBH your commute sounds too long to manage it 5 days p/w.. if moving near your parents wou;d reduce your journey and givwe you childcare, that does have its appeal!

[gufflings]

Hi all

Many, MANY thanks for the replies and the PMs I've received. You've all given me invaluable information and lots of food for thought!

Nanny shares/childminders aren't something I'd considered as I thought they'd be more expensive than nurseries, but perhaps not... Interesting.

I'm not sure if I can phase going back to work but I guess it's something I could talk to HR about when the time comes. However, I do have pretty flexible working hours - can start as early as 8am to as late as 10am as long as I work my core hours/whatever hours I decide to return to - so jigging these around is something to think about too.

My commute is a total pain in the backside, but if we moved a bit nearer to Denmark Hill Station I'd save about half an hour (I live at the park end of Dunstans Road and used to walk/get the bus to Peckham Rye Station). I suppose one perk of renting is that it'll be easier to move if needs be...

[Fuschia]

I think one tip would be to keep an open mind. Often I've found I had a plan and it made me feel better, but in the end other factors intervened and we never went with what we first planned.

So perhaps get her name down for a couple of nurseries, and look around for a good minder or a nanny share, and think seriously about flexible working.. then review it all in the Autumn...

[carlito]

Hi

Just my opinion but seems to be the same as quite a few others... I went back to work when my daughter (3 in July) was 9 months and couldn't get her into a nursery anywhere... With hindsight I am so glad I couldn't as if I had have done I would not have discovered the truly wonderful childminder she is still with now. They are cheaper (mine has recently gone up to ?50 per day with all meals, trips etc included)- with childcare vouchers from both of us we only actually have to find ?370 a month ourselves for a 4 day week its not too expensive and our daughter has had 1 constant carer in a stable family environment who she adores for almost 2 years. She also goes out and about loads - to the Horniman, Greenwich park, loads of different play groups and even further afield in summer which is fantastic. So I would say have a look round and talk to some childminders - if your daughter will be over 12 months then far easier to find a place too. (although you can't really start looking properly until a couple of months before)

[Smiler]

I too thought that childminders were a bit cheaper than nursery.

I'm another fan of the childcare vouchers. Am not 100% sure, but think that the men might be able to start buying them even before using them to pay for childcare, e.g. while you are still on maternity leave, i.e. start making tax savings in advance. Not all nannies/childminders accept them though (though those with childminders/nannies will know more about this).

Being ruthless, though, if your goal is to save up for a new place to live and perhaps also reduce your commuting time to work, it might be sensible to move (somewhere cheaper?), so that could have the option of your parents helping out for a day or more each week. We are probably going to leave East Dulwich soon 'cos of the high cost of housing here (sob).

[gufflings]

Wise words, Fuschia. I love a plan but am fast discovering they're pretty impossible to stick to when it comes to children.

Just rang Camberwell Grove nursery and the waiting list is a year - uh-oh. Am going to fill in an application form anyway and get on their waiting list, just in case something does come up in time. Will contact a few others and see if I have better luck elsewhere.

Carlito, sounds like you really struck it lucky with your childminder. Fantastic! How did you go about finding her?

Echo, where did you find yours?

[gufflings]

Also forgot to ask, how far in advance would I need to start looking for/book a childminder do you think?

Thanks in advance!

PS - Smiler, costs in Twickenham virtually the same as East Dulwich so not much saving there unfortunately.

[carlito]

Hi

You call Southwark child services and ask them for an up to date (ahem) list of childminders in the area. You get a list of loads all detailing the sort of care they offer and what places they have. Go through the whole list and cross off any that instantly do not appeal (ie live too far away or just don't have much to say or anything that draws you to them) and work your way down the list. I treated it like I would do if I was at work - set 2 hours aside and just tried to speak to as many as possible. Ignore what places they say they have and don't have as the list is so out of date anyway. Keep numbers of nice sounding ones and ask if the good sounding ones with no places have any recommendations.My one came from that list but when I first spoke to her she had no places.. but we got on well and she took my number and called me back when she unexpectedly had a place 2 weeks later. Its painful but worth it.... I only sorted it out about 2 months before going back to work as hard to do it before then. FYI I found it tough to find any places at all in ED so had to look further afield - which means a drive to Nunhead every day but it's a small sacrifice given how happy we are with her.

[echo]

I did do the same as Carlito, and got the Southwark childminder lists. Places do come up; either from families moving, getting made redundant or having more kids.... I spoke to some lovely people, but they were too far away for it to work for us.

In the end I had a recommendation for our childminder, and managed to get a place for the two days. He is in the next street to us which is a bonus..

Best of luck..

[gufflings]

Thanks, folks!

Just given them a call and lists of nurseries and childminders are on their way...