What is a non-competitive sports day??

[*Bob*]

Mrs *Bob* agreed to have a child solely on the condition than she could enter the parents egg and spoon race.

She is devastated.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Oooh - but let's not blame it necessarily on PC gone mad... that's a catch-all excuse as far as I'm concerned these days - Asset you are BANG out of order!!

Edited in response to Assets previous request ;-)

PS This thread is a bit feisty innit - you can't type a response without 3 more being squeezed in before you!

[Asset]

not allowed eggs any more - health and safety - it's potatoes.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Sean - but it's not ALL competition that has been expunged, only sporting competition, so you need to ask why, if we are supposed to be knocking aggressive workplace attitudes on the head, has every other type of competition increased?

Don't want to bring class into this, but it all goes back to the elite class's love of Plato who was an elitist, misogynistic arsehole, promoting the cerebral (read ruling class pursuits) over the physical (read lower/slave class grind).

Sorry I had to do a bit on Plato for Uni

[SeanMacGabhann]

CWALD - I certainly wasn't disagreeing with you - I had actually typed a lot more but removed it for .. umm.. editorial reasons

I suspect if you and I sat down about what was right and wrong in this world we would score well in Mr & Mrs (is that still a game?)

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Ooer Mr MacGabhnn - was that a proposal??

[*Bob*]

Yeah.. c'mon. Tie the knot. There'll be som?thing in it for you if Cameron gets in.

[Keef]

The class argument is bo!!ocks mate.

Anyway, I initially agreed totally with you Chav... When I was at school, there were some great athletes who went on to represent England. Now most of these guys weren't the most academic, but this let them succeed at something and hold their heads high. I was a crap runner (rugby was the only sport I did well at school), but I got my chance to shine through music, so I was happy.

I came home this evening and discussed this with Mrs Keef (a primary teacher), and she said she could see exactly what you were saying, and would probably feel the same if it was her kid. However, something she did point out is that some kids just aren't great at anything, so they finish badly in class, then sports day comes along and they finish last there too. Now if that was your kid, it would break your heart, and you would want to spare them that pain...

I believe in competition, and it's part of life, but I do think that those clever kids who are bad at sport probably could handle one day of loosing. Think of the kids who never win, do they deserve yet more failier?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Well if Cameron is for it I'll have to forego the pleasure CWALD

But hey the next forum drinks'll be fun

as for the anti-pc folks: do you really want to be one of these people?

http://www.capc.co.uk/views_and_comments.htm

Does ANYTHING in there stand up to any analysis whatsoever??

especially the christmas stuff - sheesh, how many times does this have to be disproved?

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

SeamMG - That's all right, cos I doubt my boyfriend would have approved.

Keef - I agree with you. We have a hierarchical society dominated by an elite who alienate anyone who is not like them or 'useful' to them. I disagree with this system and would love a bit of anarchy and people power.

But in the meantime, if sporty competition is done away with in the name of fairness, why is academic competition not also done away with? Why do we have to sit exams at all? Why is academic success accepted universally as a goal to aspire to, but physical prowess is not?

Is this because the physically gifted person is no longer useful as a source of labour now that our heavy industries have all died. Is it because the only use non-academics have to this society is to serve the fries with our burgers? Sometimes it feels like the elite want us all to just fade into the background until we become useful again, to fight their oil wars.

Physical and non-academic kids need their chance to shine, not just in sport, in all areas of life, but our school system is geared to churning out academic wage slaves, and throws away anyone who doesn't make the grade.

[Asset]

but CWALD - did you not feel the tiniest bit competitive when you were doing your exams for your degree recently? I think a bit of competition is healthy, it pushes you to go that bit further.

[clare]

CWALD- I think you will find that when your daughter goes to school on Monday that the winning team will be announced.

Then if your daughter was in the winning team- she would be a winner and then if she was not in that winning team she would not be the winner.

[Ondine]

I have a bright and sporty girl and a less bright and incredibly non-sporty girl. She was asthmatic when little and gets breathless v quickly. So I'm very sympathetic with the "something for everyone" approach. There are a lot of chances for sporting excellence in and around school, and they are very hsppy to celebrate success at assemblies and through the newsletter, so sports day isn't the sole focal point.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I was good academically and athletically at school and because I always came near the top in academic tests it was expected that I should give up sports in favour of academic study, despite winning every race I entered and being captain of the hockey and basketball teams. I was hyperactive and preferred sport and hanging around with the more interesting less academic people in my school.

I am slightly competitive academically but more competitive physically, but no where near as competitive as most people, because I never really bought into the brain is superior stuff. Possibly because my brother was the boffin in my house, and he had no common sense, couldn't wipe his own arse without help, and needed me to protect him as a kid. I love him and respect who he is, but don't think because he was brighter than me (academically), that he was better than me.

I'm pleased I have a degree now, but does that mean I am any better than I was before? I don't think so. I think it is just a way to stop people saying "oooh, you're actually quite intelligent aren't you" when they meet me and I don't fit their idea of what a successful, intelligent person is.

If I get a job now because of the fact I have a degree, it will be the first time in my life I will have got a 'normal' job with holiday pay and normal hours. I was never interested in that life, but as I have got older and slowed down a bit, I don't mind sitting down, making money that way, but ultimately all I want is a piece of land to grow my own food and make sure my family are ok when the oil runs out and the ice caps melt.

Even my boffin brother has given up the rat race and bought his farm in France, my Dad has his piece and my other brother wants to tag along with me. I was the only one in my family who knew from as young as 13 this life is crap, and I've only joined the wage slaves cos I live in a council house and can easily save enough to buy farmland in France - which is very cheap, and even cheaper if you take your basic agriculture exams.

So that's my view on the status of academic bits of paper - a means to an end. I think physical knowledge is just as, if not more, important than any academic knowledge, and without it, academic knowledge is just some other persons experience taught to you as fact.

[Red_Cat]

i think the idea of non-competetive sports is a fantastic concept which should realise its full potential in the 2012 Olympics. No winners, no losers, no medals, flags or national anthems - just a load of athletes milling around at the end of their non-competitive race feeling very chuffed with themselves because they haven't lost and at the same time conveniently covering up for the fact that we (Brits) are rubbish and wouldn't have won anything anyway - brilliant!

[Brendan]

Non-competitive sports? I?ve never heard a bigger load of limp-wristed codswallop in my life! I went to school in South Africa so this is news to me. No wonder England is so reliably crap at sport.

I am truly, truly exasperated by the very concept even though I was never the best at sport and ?non-competitiveness? would have saved me from many black eyes and at least two broken arms.

[Keef]

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Is this because the physically gifted person is no

> longer useful as a source of labour now that our

> heavy industries have all died.

It was proven to me just how weak we all are these days when I went to Rye and visited the castle. The guide there told me that Archers would have to do tests to qualify, and would have to it a target something like 12 times in a minute. He then asked me to pull this rope, which I did, and it was bloody heavy!!! He then asked me to do it with one hand, and after 3 pulls,(which took at least 30 seconds), my arm was shaking!

He also said that back then they'd drink 30 to 50 pints in a day if there was a party! I want to go back in time!!!!

[citizenED]

Keef, are you telling us all about your drinking sessions again, visiting the Rye and the Castle and something about some Archers...

citizen

[Huguenot]

Hi CWALD, my imagination fails me, what actually happened at this non-competitive sports day? Were there races or just jumping up and down?

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Huguenot - There were group activites (not exactly sports) done against the clock and the group who had the most points won, so its wasn't completely non-competitive, but the age groups were all mixed up, fatties in with athletic kids and most of the scorers not really counting scores properly. So the gifted kids got bored, the fat ones got all hot and bothered, so the only winners were all the mediocre ones really.

The "sports" day should have really been called a fun day, and they should maybe have a real sports day on another occasion.

One thing I'd like to add about this whole competitive thing, is that yes it's not very nice not to be picked for the sports day, but it's also not very nice not to get a good part in the school play or other productions, but they still have a selective element. And as I said before, you don't see the posh parents clamouring for less competition in academic tests, so I say, bring back a proper competitive sports day for all schools and the losers should stop bloody whining!!

[Red_Cat]

'bring back a proper competitive sports day for all schools and the losers should stop bloody whining!!'

I agree. Accepting defeat in good grace and being able to congratulate the winner is a lesson all children need to learn (or so I was always told when I was at school!) and how can talented sporty children reach their full potential if they are not allowed to compete?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Potential? The definitive word on potential surely is here: (46 seconds in)

Potential

[Red_Cat]

Tee hee!

[Ganapati]

I thought schools banned sports days because it was the parents and not the children who were being overly-competitive. See the Guardian article. http://education.guardian.co.uk/schoolsports/story/0,,1516993,00.html. Anyway, Chav, I know you're upset, but surely it's not as simple as posh parents are for academics and non-posh parents are for sports?

[citizenED]

CWALD, a sports event is, I agree, the best place for competition to reveal itself. Much better there than in any other sphere of life. Post-Thatcher society has been sadly sullied by the fact that competition is promoted above co-operation, or even simply experience or enjoyment, in many areas of our culture. You can have competition when there is a degree of objectivity, as in when Kelly Holmes gets to the finish line first and wins gold - no arguement, and you can retain the illusion of competition in complex, skill-based sports like football (even when you get the situations where the Mighty Arsenal put on a masterclass in passing, dribbling, control but neglect to put the ball in the back of the net only for sorry, plodding Bolton to score a scappy winner (ahem) in the 89th minute).

I also think that educational policy over the past 20 years or so has moved away from competition in exams to a more inclusive view of academic achievement. For example, the erosion of the 11+, merging of GCSE's and O-levels, introduction of GNVQ and the development of the AS level. All these have been introduced to ensure that children of all abilities come out of school with a record of what they have achieved. I'm not saying I agree with these things but it seems unfair to suggest that schools simply favour the academically minded.

So the question is to the nature of a Primary school "Sports" Day. Is it a place of fierce competition where matched athletes compete against each other, or, as you call it yourself, a "Fun" day for all the merry little ones to partake in and enjoy? No doubt, in PE, the school will have judged the kids sporting abilities over the course of the year. Your child probably knows already whereabouts they stand so they don't lose out by beating someone they already know they can beat in front of a bunch of parents.

Someone suggested you take them to a sports club. They will be challenged by people better than them. They will improve. Proper competition in a valid competitive environment.

citizen