local primary schools amongst the 400+ where air pollution exceeds EU limits

[bawdy-nan]

Extremely depressing to see: DVIS, Goose Green, Rye Oak and Dog Kennel Hill Schools in the list, previously suppressed by Boris Johnson, but published by the new mayor which a) shows NO2 levels breach EU limits around more than 400 of London's primary schools b) that these schools tend to be in areas of highest deprivation (indicated by eligibility for free school meals). Not the case here, of course, but pretty grim reading.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/16/boris-johnson-accused-of-burying-study-linking-pollution-and-deprived-schools

[Loz]

I read this yesterday. What exactly is the correlation they are trying to make between air pollution and schools?

[bawdy-nan]

There are 433 (out of a total of 1777) primary schools in London where NO2 levels breach EU limits. NO2 causes respitory problems especially in children and older people. (9000 people in London died earlier as a reult of air pollution).

Of these 433 schools 83% were "deprived schools" (where there is more than 40% eligibility for free school meals). Of the 1777 schools where air quality levels was not breached less than 20% were considered deprived.

The inference being that deprived children are disproportionately exposed to the dangerously high levels of air pollution.

There are other figures in the report that reinforce that argument beyond schools (ie the most deprived London boroughs have greater exposure to air pollution.)

[midivydale]

A very disheartening read indeed. Children with asthma and other health issues are particularly vulnarble

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I don't think that any schools should be on busy roads . It's common sense that it's going to be the air that children breath for at least 6 years of their lives .

I really hope that steps are taken to improve the air quality for everyone but especially for the children .

[uncleglen]

Add to that all the particulates and solvent fumes from the endless building work going on and you have a recipe for disaster......the real problem is overpopulation when all is said and done.....

[rendelharris]

It's not really overpopulation so much as overexpectation, we expect to be allowed to use cars all the time and scream about the war on the motorist if it's ever suggested restrictions on their size and use be imposed, we expect the supermarkets to be packed with everything we could possibly need and much more, we expect to be able to take cheap flights to the continent whenever we feel like a weekend away...all these things drive pollution, against which we all complain whilst contributing to it. I'm sure some parents will be desperately anxious about the pollution around their children's schools, so much so that they'll worry about it the whole way as they drive them there in the 4x4. We're all guilty, we either have to accept that our lifestyles are killing others or try to do something about it.

[Penguin68]

Schools will tend to be built where there is good public transport - so that children can get to them or parents delivering them on foot can then readily catch buses etc. to work. Unfortunately this places them on, or close to, busy roads. The governments (tory and labour and libdem coalition) have been convinced that diesel is good, because it releases less CO2 into the atmosphere, and this is seen as contributing to climate change. So - law of unintended consequences - schools are massively exposed to NOX. [Car firms fiddling the pollutant output figures haven't helped, making the effects even worse than intended].

Oh, and 'poor people will tend to live in less nice areas than rich people' - well, that's amazing. I'd never have guessed.

[TheArtfulDogger]

For fear of being shot at, a comment in rendleharris post above will relieve the problem slightly, if parents didn't drive their nippers to school in 4x4s or any other car then pollution near the school will drop

Couldn't say by how much but surely every little helps ?

[bawdy-nan]

Certainly car traffic to school drop off contributes to the no2 problem but the catchment areas for local primaries are tiny so it is rare to see children being delivered to local primaries by car. Delivery to the local private schools, where the pupils live much further away, is certainly a factor in traffic levels in Dulwich Village. Or rather, it certainly feels much less busy when the private schools are on holiday and the state schools aren't. Hard to know how to fix this solo public transport trickier for the younger end of the school age and the coaches that bring many of the older children (big diesel pumpers) are already the cause of some considerable complaint.

As regards building schools on "busy" roads, the ones round here are mostly Victorian and predate the traffic.

[James Barber]

Bringing forward the proposed Ultra Low Emission Zone from 2020 as planned to 2019 will help. Even better increasing its size to be bounded by the North and South Circular. Our new London Mayor has made the right moves early in his term of office about air pollution. The primary school pollution news really hammers home how bad London air quality is.

It will mean many diesel cars/vehicles will need to be replaced or face a ?12 per day pollution charge.

It will mean our local schools will all have much cleaner air.

And yes we do have a problem with Goose Green school having quite so many parents driving kids to and from school - especially considering the catchment area is so short.

[Tigres Pride]

What is the point of a Low Emission Zone when car manufacturers can and do find ways around "muddying" the true figures? Recent and on-going events have shown that to-date the only benefit of testing cars was to the Manufacturers, who increased the cost of cars, and to the testers, who increased the price of the MOT tests.

For every scheme that local or national government comes up with, someone always finds a way around it and the only losers are, as usual, the public!!!

[ianr]

I've coincidentally just found:London?s air quality often makes the headlines of the Evening Standard, but how bad is it really? Who are the main culprits, and what can we do about it? And is it really true that London?s air pollution makes your bogeys turn black? Leading air quality experts, David Green and Ben Barratt, have spent much of the last 20 years downwind of some of London?s worst emissions sources to bring you the answer to these questions and more!

It's part of a double bill in the Pint of Science Festival next Tuesday, 24 May, 7-10pm. ?4

Venue: The Battersea Barge, Nine Elms Lane, London, SW8 5BP, United Kingdom

https://pintofscience.co.uk/event/dirty-air-the-silent-killer

[Loz]

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And is it really true that London?s air pollution makes

> your bogeys turn black?

When I first came to London from Oz that's exactly what I experienced. It lasted for about six months.

What my body did to to make it stop happening I don't really want to think about.

[rendelharris]

Tigres Pride Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What is the point of a Low Emission Zone when car

> manufacturers can and do find ways around

> "muddying" the true figures? Recent and on-going

> events have shown that to-date the only benefit of

> testing cars was to the Manufacturers, who

> increased the cost of cars, and to the testers,

> who increased the price of the MOT tests.

> For every scheme that local or national government

> comes up with, someone always finds a way around

> it and the only losers are, as usual, the

> public!!!

That's true generally but we have to take some responsibility ourselves - we all know, however much the manufacturers fiddle the figures, that larger cars than we need are almost always worse for the environment, yet we persist in buying them, we certainly now know that diesel cars are one of the worst sources of air pollution, yet people are still buying them, we know that we should try to walk or cycle more and stop using cars for short trips, yet we still do it...legislation is certainly necessary, and the mayor's plans for pollution charging will be very useful in this respect, but a change of mindset is needed which no amount of legislation can effect, it has to come from within (self included!) if we really want to have clean air for our children to breathe.

[Nigello]

"it is rare to see children being delivered to local primaries by car."

Cars (often large) can be seen a-plenty around Goodrich, St Anthony's and Heber primaries when classes start and end. If parents don't want children to be educated in polluted zones they ought not to help cause the pollution in the first place.

[tomskip]

Some children at local primary schools are not local - the prioritising of siblings in the admissions process sees to that.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ianr Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > And is it really true that London?s air

> pollution makes

> > your bogeys turn black?

>

> When I first came to London from Oz that's exactly

> what I experienced. It lasted for about six

> months.

>

> What my body did to to make it stop happening I

> don't really want to think about.

It happens only when you travel on the Tube. There is so much dust down there.

[Zebedee Tring]

Solution to problem of your kids suffering from toxic air pollution - send them to Eton. Pupils at that establishment have benefited from clean air since 1970 when the bridge over the Thames between Eton and Windsor, a direct cause of traffic outside the school, was closed to motor traffic. It remains the only major road bridge over the Thames ever to have been shut.

It's the rich wot gets the pleasure ... it's the poor wot etc etc.

[Loz]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> > When I first came to London from Oz that's exactly

> > what I experienced. It lasted for about six

> > months.

> >

> > What my body did to to make it stop happening I

> > don't really want to think about.

>

> It happens only when you travel on the Tube. There

> is so much dust down there.

I didn't travel much on the tube in that time. Lived and worked in the same place, mostly.

[flocker spotter]

I have no idea where these readings were taken within the school grounds, but two years ago DKH Year 4 children took part in a pollution study in conjunction with Kings College which involved children wearing pollution monitors on their journeys to and from school and within the playground at lunchtime and playtime. When the results were presented to us, the pollution levels in the playground, as I remember, were better than those on many of the children's journeys to school. Possibly the school building shelters the playground, which is at the rear away from the busy roads. Or pollution levels experienced by children on their way to school is more of a danger.

[rendelharris]

Well, pollution levels are lower at hill summits as windflow disperses them, so DKH has that in its favour. Also, most DKH pupils (I assume) will make all or part of their journey to school along some of the most polluted roads in Europe during the rush hour, so it would be highly surprising if they experienced the same levels in the playground at midday. However, they might be exposed to the higher pollution levels for half an hour a day going to and from school, but then they are exposed to what, 70% of those levels for seven hours at school? So ultimately the levels experienced during their school day will be more harmful. Both from the same source anyway and both need to be dealt with if there's any hope of protecting them from harm.

[bawdy-nan]

The data comes from the maps produced by King's College London. http://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/annualmaps.asp These maps show areas where the limits are exceeded (red).

The full report is here https://www.scribd.com/doc/312760725/Analysing-Air-Pollution-Exposure-in-London?secret_password=UjnUA1OxDIURIebGARhZ

[James Barber]

The report shows some local schools being above the 40 limit at around 42 in 2010. That by 2017 forecast to be at 37 and by 2020 around 32.

So the title of this thread and the news reports isn't quite right. It should add the caveat in 2010. I think we'd all like to have seen this report in 2013 when originally prepared.

What I think would be useful is to repeat the report stating the schools actually on or above the EU current safe limit. I'd also like reassurance that the limit is actually correct or is it a compromise.

[uncleglen]

Anyone who has not been aware for at least the last 10 years that pollution in London is bad has been living in a bubble- the fact that Boris didn't make it known is neither here nor there because others have published endless data- and we get fined every year by the EU for breaching the levels....even though the pollution from foreign lorries and cars increases year on year.