Utterly stunned

[Ladymuck]

My apologies in advance if this post appears incoherent and rambling.

A few hours ago I returned from visiting an elderly lady. She is 90 years old, originally from Serbia, has been widowed for the last 20 or so years, has no relatives (or friends) in this country, and lives on her own in rented accommodation. Although in full possession of her faculties upstairs she is, unfortunately, physically disabled in that she can walk only with the aid of two sticks and for a very short distance, has arthritis in both hands, is profoundly deaf, and sometimes loses her balance due to degenerative cerebral vascular disease. Personality wise she is as stubborn as a mule, cantankerous, knows what she wants (and doesn't want), highly intelligent, witty, full of spunk, and has the sort of fiery temperament which would make Gordon Ramsey look like a new-born lamb. She makes me laugh though. However, it is fair to say that she has managed to alienate most people over the years as she can come across as brutally rude.

She does have (and is in touch with) family in Serbia (a cousin, his wife and their two children, as well as some nieces and nephews etc.), and they have suggested to her that she return to Serbia and live with them. However, being fiercely independent (and harbouring an intense dislike for her cousin's wife!), she does not believe this to be a viable option.

About four years ago she attempted to commit suicide by taking some 150+ sleeping tablets. She didn't succeed, was subsequently committed unto psychiatric care for a couple of months after which time (barring initial visits from Social Services, psychiatrists and the like) she was basically left to her own devices. Because of this, her rather lonely situation and her various disabilities, I (and a friend of mine) have since taken it in turn to visit her several times a week to ensure she is alright, has sufficient food in the house, and to attend to minor jobs etc. - you know...the sort of stuff you would do for an elderly person who has no-one. We have been doing this for about four years now. My friend has been especially kind - regularly supplying the lady in question with home-cooked fare.

Following the attempted suicide, she read an article about Dignitas (the assisted suicide clinic in Zurich) and applied to be considered. My friend and I have (rightly or wrongly) over the years attempted to get her to change her mind about ending her life like this and - I would like to think - helped to make her lonely existence a little less so and worth living a little more. As time has gone on, whilst there have been numerous spells when she has become low and has contemplated the futility of life and suicide, there have (equally) been many a time when she has been able to laugh, enjoy something on TV, have a good conversation with one (or both) of us, get tiddly over a glass of wine etc. etc. And, whilst during that time she has never actually withdrawn her application from Dignitas, there have been many an occasion when she has said things like "oh, I don't know what to do about Zurich...if only my husband were alive...this week I am OK...should I go to Switzerland?...I am not sure what to do..." etc. etc. In short, there has always been serious doubt in her mind about whether or not to go. My stance has always been the same, i.e: DON'T DO IT. My friend, on the other hand, is less emotional (and therefore more rational/sensible) than I am and is able to be a little more neutral (i.e. offering continued help and support for as long as required whilst at the same time believing it is this lady's choice to do as she wishes with her life). I should also add that although she does get a bit "down" now and again (I mean, we all do - don't we?) she is definitely not depressed and is of completely sound mind. Moreover, her GPs are aware of her situation and - specifically - of her plans for the future. Frankly, it concerns me that they've even given her the "green light" to go ahead.

Now to the really difficult bit. As alluded to above, I have not long returned from one of my visits to this lady's, whereupon she quite matter of factly informed me that it "was all settled". I.e. she has booked her flight, hotel etc. and is soon to depart for Dignitas to have her life put at an end. Well, as stated at the outset, I am stunned and feel quite, quite dazed...not to mention inexpressibly sad. In fact the news unnerved me so much that I couldn't stay with her as long as usual - nor could I look her in the eye for fear of bursting into tears. I had to leave her in a hurry, ironically probably at a time when she could (in all honesty) have done with an extra long chat. But I just couldn't face it. Instead I have been burdening hubby and friends with this issue as I am quite beside myself as to what to think, feel, do, say etc. In no time at all she will be on that plane to Zurich and 3 days later she will be...gosh it's hard to even utter the word...but, yes, she will have been put down...like a sick budgie at the vets...she will be...dead.

Do I visit her again before her flight? I know I must appear cowardly, but (at present anyway) I lack the necessary strength and courage to do so. On the other hand, my conscience tells me that I should, and I am fairly certain that I would feel pretty shitty with myself if I didn't. My friend, although admitting its an unusual situation to find herself in, thinks she will. I have suggested to her that we should perhaps go together, but she feels this might put the old lady in question ill at ease at an already extremely very difficult time.

I was not going to post this on the Forum given that, for me, the EDF is a chill-out zone...a place where I have fun and relish fooling around. Though I did toy with the idea of of posting under a different name, or even on a different forum...but, if I am to be candid, I wouldn't have been happy with either of those courses of action. Having spoken to hubby and a couple of friends, they have suggested that I brave the EDF. So this is a first for me and I apologise most sincerely if it causes unease amongst some of you. I don't know what else to do.

[SimonM]

You should visit her and say your goodbyes. It is her decision and should be respected.

[Pickle]

Difficult situation to be in. As hard as it is, I agree with SimonM - I take the view that it's nice that you get to say goodbye, where for most people the death of an elderly relative or friend, while not unexpected, comes at a time where you don't get to say those final words. It sounds like you have been an absolute pillar of support to this lady over the years, and I'm sure your continued support would mean a lot to her, despite that fact that you're not comfortable with her decision.

Assisted suicide doesn't sit easy with me, however it's her decision - no doubt one that she has spent a long time thinking about, and not a decision she's reached lightly.

Try to be strong, it sounds like you have a lot of support from your husband and friends which you will need over the coming weeks. No doubt you will get many words of wisdom from the EDF once everyone else wakes up.

P x

[KalamityKel]

Certainly go and see her. Remember it is her that is going through it and not you. Hard as this may sound and I certainly don't mean to upset you or come across as insensitive but try to detatch your feelings from it all for the now. Now is a time for her. Grieving can come later. :)-D

[legalbeagle]

Ladymuck - if you can find it anywhere on youtube or iplayer, please see if you can listen to this years Dimbleby lecture on assisted suicide by Terry Pratchet. I think it might really help you get inside the head of someone who wants to end their own life. It is incredibly moving and very interesting and I think it might help.

And please, please go and see her before she dies. You will regret not doing so for the rest of your life. Friendship is a difficult thing but at its best it is the ability to love someone for who and what they are, not to judge, and not to fail them in difficult times. Show her, and yourself, that you are able to do that. However hard this is for you (and I don't underestimate how hard it is) this is about her life, her choices. Accept her for who she is.

[titch juicy]

Gotta say goodbye

for your sake and hers

[SeanMacGabhann]

wow LadyM - that's some post there. I think as time goes on more and more people will find themselves in simiar positions to both you and your friend, but right now you haven't got too much to draw upon

The lady in questions sounds like quite the force tho - someone like that will leave a hole in your life

I would echo what people are saying on here - you will spend years kicking yourself if you don't go and visit. Which won't make it any easier when you do and you will be bent out of shape for quite a while, but it sounds like you already know what you need and want to do. And it sounds like you have the people you need to support you

best of luck

[Michael Palaeologus]

You have to say Goodbye. Let her know that you will miss her, that is important for her to know.

She is 90, has had some highs and lows, is in charge of her mental faculties and has decided to say adieu.

She is to be respected for that. It is not for others to stop her.

[Ant]

You've been a good friend to her for a long time. Now you have one last chance to see that friendship through to the end by visiting her and saying goodbye. I suggest you take that chance, and use it well.

If you're worried about what to say (I mean, who wouldn't be?) then I'd suggest that it's of secondary importance to actually being there.

It will be difficult, but it seems to me that not going will work out more difficult in the long run.

Good luck!

[woofmarkthedog]

If I were you....

I'd tell her how you feel, hug her & curse outloud at her ( she's deaf after all )

Call her all the names under the sun

But go & say goodbye, wave her off

Kiss her cheek, wipe away your tears & be brave for her ( she may well have you in her thoughts as she passes away )

Hats of to the old bird though...

" Death & taxes "

They come to us all

W**F

[Keef]

What everybody else has said.

It is a very weird situation, and I don't know how one says goodbye to someone like this, but I'd agree that you'll always wish you'd done it if you don't try.

[PeckhamRose]

What everyone else has said.

And it's a wonderful posting. That's what this forum does best, makes us think as well.

Now, here's my tuppence worth.

It's not about you. It's about her.

She has made up her mind.

She may not have been around for so long or as happy about being so, had you not visited and befriended her.

She may not even want your acceptance or care for it.

But you may never forgive yourself if you don't say goodbye to her and smile, thanking her for everything she has given you over the years. Of course you'll cry and she may not react in the way you want or need her to. That's her!

But do go say goodbye and let her know what she meant to you. Buy her something sweet or special she loves to eat, to take with her maybe.

[daizie]

Id make sure i was in her will and neck back all her medications . ( Joke LM just trying to make myself laugh) .

[caz]

An incredibly hard thing for you to do but I to echo the other posts.

You have been a wonderful friend and support to her.

Very best wishes

[Jah Lush]

As above really. Say your goodbyes and respect her wishes.

[RosieH]

Yes LadyM, what everyone else said. Say your goodbyes and be thankful to have had this person in your life - you'll both feel better for it.

I'm lucky to have few regrets in my life, but the two I have are about not saying goodbye to people I really cared about before it was too late. One was a suicide, and although I was shocked and hurt and angry at the time, in the years since, all that has faded and it has caused me pain not to have been there for my friend in hospital when he most needed his friends around him to say goodbye.

There was a wonderful Julie Walters programme on TV last year - A Short Stay in Switzerland - that deals with one woman's trip to Dignitas. I'd highly recommend it - it's utterly heartbreaking but ultimately I think it might help you at what is an incredibly difficult time.

[Bellenden Belle]

Wise words from everyone above LadyM.

This could be the time when your friend needs you the most. No matter how feisty a lady she may well be, facing death cannot be easy. Hold her hand and listen to her - support her decision, and give her the chance to know her wishes have been heard and accepted. Give her the gift of knowing she has made a difference to your life - as she has to your life.

With the support of family and friends, you might be surprised at the reserves of courage you find.

Good luck and take care.

[SteveT]

You might help her pack to make sure she has all she needs and then send her off as if she is emigrating. Full marks for your help and support for this feisty old lady.

She has had a long and varied life during her stay and now wants to go, so why not?

My own line is drawn to top myself when I have bouts of frequent or constant pain, and can no longer (do it) have sex:'(

[jimmy two times]

Give her a kiss and say goodbye.

[daizie]

Too right Steve - not being able to get it up anymore must be dreadful . (Sorry LM again, i wont comment again) .

[SteveT]

daizie wrote:- Too right Steve - not being able to get it up anymore must be dreadful .

I wouldn't know, except from what I've read:))

[SeanMacGabhann]

I thought if there was one thread where people wouldn't head for the gutter it might be this one - I was wrong

[giggirl]

LM you are an unsung heroine. I hope that when I'm 90 there is someone as caring and wonderful as you to pass the time with.

There's no question that you have been a tremendous support for this lady. I know you will do the right thing and say your goodbyes. It's going to be hard and I'm sure there will be many tears. Be strong.

Px

[Huggers]

Its lovely you've been so supportive to her. Support her now. If you can face it, take her some treats/cakes/nice wine- you and your friend together- and have a little get together with her. So her last experience on earth is being amongst people who care about her, having a nice time, and having a chance to share things on her mind- sounds like she wouldnt have anyone else to share it with, and this is important- maybe memories, maybe stories.

You could take her some nice things for her washbag, so she will feel cared for and remembered when she opens it the other end.

[Cassius]

LM - what an amazing person you must be - your friend has been lucky to have you for the past years. It is now time to do the last and biggest thing for your friend, and that is to wish her goodbye. As pointed out by other posters, it is her life, her decision and ultimately her death and it would be a shame if after all you've done you are left with any regrets from not saying your farewells.