Any Electricians in the house?

[pipsky2008]

I have had a kitchen refit with a wiring upgrade. My electric cooker was re-connected yesterday and I tried to cook on it but it trips out the sockets as well as itself.

Today the contractor says there is a fault with my cooker which is causing the trip out and it's not their problem.

There was nothing wrong with the cooker before and it worked perfectly.

I appreciate it's difficult for an electrician to make a hard and fast comment on this without an inspection and test but could an electrician reading this confirm if this is possible ?

Thanks

[KidKruger]

It's obviously possible, if there's a fault with the cooker (or the cabling specific to the cooker).

You don't need a sparky to establish that.

[pipsky2008]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's obviously possible, if there's a fault with

> the cooker (or the cabling specific to the

> cooker).

> You don't need a sparky to establish that.

but as I said in the text the cooker worked perfectly before and there was no fault then

[uncleglen]

Google how to connect an electric cooker and watch a video and check their connection. I've always done my own connecting- it's just like a 3 pin plug but there is a 30amp fuse associated with a cooker and it's on a separate circuit from the household rings

[ed_pete]

Do you know if during the refit the electrician fitted a new consumer unit just to service the kitchen or was it wired to your existing consumer unit ?

If the former then I guess that the whole unit is tripping which is also taking out the kitchen sockets linked to the same unit. Seems strange. Could be worth checking that they have fitted an appropriately rated miniature circuit breaker (MCB) for the cooker 30 amps is normal.

I certainly hope that they haven't combined the cooker and sockets on the same circuit - they should be separate.

Consumer Unit - http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/domestic-consumer-units/cat7230028

MCB - http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/mcbs/cat7230022?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-electrical-_-mcb

[pipsky2008]

Thank you Uncleglen for your reply

The contractors electrician fitted the cooker whilst I was there to speak to him. I oversaw his work and all was in order with the re-connection.

You raise two important matters though.

1. The 30amp fuse

How do I visually verify the Amperage of the fuse.ie, where is the fuse for me to inspect and confirm that it is 30A ?

2. the cooker is on a upgraded and rewired system. I think it is not on a separate system otherwise why would it trip the household sockets?

Regards

[pipsky2008]

ed_pete Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Do you know if during the refit the electrician

> fitted a new consumer unit just to service the

> kitchen or was it wired to your existing consumer

> unit ?

> If the former then I guess that the whole unit is

> tripping which is also taking out the kitchen

> sockets linked to the same unit. Seems strange.

> Could be worth checking that they have fitted an

> appropriately rated miniature circuit breaker

> (MCB) for the cooker 30 amps is normal.

> I certainly hope that they haven't combined the

> cooker and sockets on the same circuit - they

> should be separate.

>

> Consumer Unit -

> http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/dome

> stic-consumer-units/cat7230028

> MCB -

> http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/mcbs

> /cat7230022?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-electrical-_-m

> cb

Thank you very much for your reply ed_pete. If you don't mind I'll take what you have suggested to the foreman electrician on Monday morning.

Regards

[HomeCert]

Hi pipsky2008, sorry to hear you are having a bad experience with this.

Feel free to check out our other recommendations here:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?30,1660314

We can come by and get to the bottom of the problem for you, If you would like to give us a call to book an electrician please call us on 0207 205 2255

Kind regards,

Mike at HomeCert

[ed_pete]

pipsky2008 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ed_pete Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Do you know if during the refit the electrician

> > fitted a new consumer unit just to service the

> > kitchen or was it wired to your existing

> consumer

> > unit ?

> > If the former then I guess that the whole unit

> is

> > tripping which is also taking out the kitchen

> > sockets linked to the same unit. Seems strange.

>

> > Could be worth checking that they have fitted

> an

> > appropriately rated miniature circuit breaker

> > (MCB) for the cooker 30 amps is normal.

> > I certainly hope that they haven't combined the

> > cooker and sockets on the same circuit - they

> > should be separate.

> >

> > Consumer Unit -

> >

> http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/dome

>

> > stic-consumer-units/cat7230028

> > MCB -

> >

> http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/mcbs

>

> >

> /cat7230022?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-electrical-_-m

>

> > cb

>

>

> Thank you very much for your reply ed_pete. If you

> don't mind I'll take what you have suggested to

> the foreman electrician on Monday morning.

>

> Regards

By all means but bear in mind that I'm only a semi-competent amateur not a professional. As regards your question about the "30 amp fuse". "Fuses" aren't fitted any more, modern consumer units have the MCB's that I referred to but sometimes these are still referred to as a fuse. If you can find the consumer unit the ampage is normally one of the numbers on MCB. Typically lighting circuits are 10 amps or less, ring mains for sockets around 30. Just checked and our oven is on a 40amp MCB.

[Seabag]

Really please, just get a proper sparky in

The great/worse thing about an electric shock is; you can't see it coming

[pipsky2008]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Really please, just get a proper sparky in

>

> The great/worse thing about an electric shock is;

> you can't see it coming

What you say about not being able to see an electric shock coming is true but I have put up this post to gather information to counter a contractors statement of liability rather than to do any electrical work myself.

You are entirely right to point out the dangers of D.I.Y electrical work if you are not qualified

[ianr]

> The contractors electrician fitted the cooker whilst I was there to speak

> to him. I oversaw his work and all was in order with the re-connection.

What do you mean "all was in order"? Did he test the cooker, and did you see him doing so? How extensive were his tests?

How has the situation changed since then? Have you tried to use some part or function of the cooker that he didn't try? Have you tried to reproduce precisely whatever testing it was he did?

[pipsky2008]

Hi ianr

> The contractors electrician fitted the cooker whilst I was there to speak

> to him. I oversaw his work and all was in order with the re-connection.

By that I mean I wanted to be at home to see the cooker re-installed as my cooker has an old wiring system and I wanted to be clear about colour to colour compatibility as It is likely that I would need to uninstall the cooker myself to paint the floor under it and reinstall it again myself.

I needed to remind myself with an old to new mixed installation :

Red to Brown - live

Black to Blue - neutral

Green and yellow to green and yellow - earth

I watched while he wired this connection up, which he did. I then turned on two of the rings, which warmed up and the system did not trip in the way I have described above. I have been loaned a hotplate which I operate from a socket in the lounge which was not in operation at the time. All seemed 'in order' when he and I were present

Did he test the cooker, and did you see him doing so?

He made no tests of any kind, other than me turning on two rings

How extensive were his tests?

As above, he made no tests of any kind.

The site manager has booked an appointment for further tests of the cooker to try to ascertain where the fault lies.

I would like though to gather some knowledge to go into discussion with the contractor so as not to be palmed off.

Many thanks

Regards

[ianr]

Testing sounds the right thing to do. I think fuller testing at the time would have been sensible. My presumption would be that if a system -- whether kitchen electrics, computer suite, car -- seems be to working ok but then shows fault after an upgrade, there's possibly something amiss with the upgrade. Nevertheless, it could be that it's revealed a latent fault or quirk that you didn't notice before. I don't know the extent of the upgrade.

I can't offer definitive knowledge. The information I'd be wanting from the tests would be answers to questions like these. What is the trip switch cut-off setting? Is it definitely operating according to specification? Is there any specific function of the cooker that triggers the trip? What's the maximum current (Amps) drawn then? Is that typical of this or any other types of cooker, or is it a fault that's developed? Is it a transient thing -- eg a 'spike' happening only at the moment a relevant cooker switch is turned on/off or is that bit of the cooker always drawing that size current? What would the likely remedies be? Would they include changing the trip switch's cut-off setting? If it's a transient thing, would a safe temporary work-around be to simply leave the switch on and reset the trip switch?

[pipsky2008]

Thanks very much ianr and ed_pete

I have noted the questions you suggest. I feel far better armed

I bumped into the foreman electrician the other day, who is still on site. He thought it could be an earth leak or that previous to the upgrade the cooker hadn't been within an RCD but that now it was.

He didn't feel it was necessary for the cooker to be within the RCD but there wasn't time to go into detail.

I'm awaiting an appointment but I am getting the feeling they hope I just go away as I'm getting the silent treatment from the contractor.

I saw this link for anyone else learning the basics of electrics like me http://www.jlmelectrical.co.uk/my-rcd-keeps-tripping/

Regards