Jonathan Mitchell - candidate for MP in East Dulwich

[womanofdulwich]

After the Hustings last night I think Jonathan Mitchell annoyed everyone I spoke to, as he rambles a bit.The forum would be good for him as he would have to be brief and to the point. Bring him on and I hope he can redeem himself as he came across a being a bit arrogant.

[louisiana]

Arrogant, rambling, annoyed everyone.... This is starting to not look good.

I'd love to hear views from anyone else who was able to attend the hustings.

More than anything, I'd love to hear from Jonathan, just to see whether the reality fits with the reports, or not.

[louisiana]

Hurrah!

I withdraw my comments. (See Debate thread for Lib Dems).

[SteveT]

Mick Mack wrote:- Any response Steve ?

Funny you should ask Mick, er NO!

I didn't expect one though.

[JohnNorth]

RE: James Barber's comments about the Livesey Museum.

It's interesting he still chooses to spout this nonsense about the closure of the Livesey Museum. As was well documented, Nick Stanton privately stated at the time that the museum was closed to auction off the building for an expected 1 million. When it was pointed out that the council had no right to sell the building, Stanton was forced to back track and apologise for the closure. The Theatre Peckham deal was then cooked up as a face saver. It is not clear whether it will ever happen. Only the recent 'ethical occupation' of the building forced the council into doing anything to stop it being left to rot.

As he will also remember, the museum's visitor figures were falsified to give the impression the museum was under-used. Stupid really as the correct figures were in the public domain and the lies were easy to refute. Still, Libdem & Tory Councillors such as James Barber engaged in an ugly smear campaign against the museum and its staff, and I have no doubt this behaviour has now contributed to Southwark voters' decision to get rid of them.

"Don't know who told you the Livesey Children's museum was closed to fund East Dulwich projects. Nonsense.

It was closed because budget cuts had to be made and officers assured us relatively few Southwark residents visited it compared to the revenue cost. It was also not open the whole year.

It is now being transferred to Peckham Theatre a children's theatre which with the much larger space than they currently have can work with many more children than ever before. They also undertake their work year round."

[James Barber]

Hi JohnNorth,

What "well documented" documentation are you talking about?

Nick Stanton had no secret plans to sell the building. We had to make revenue savings. Labour have promised to reopen it so will be interesting to see what they cut to make this possible. Also, real shame for Theatre Peckham who would'nt then have bigger premises and expand their great work.

The visitor figures. Extremely frustrating they were goofed up. If you have them to hand could you remind me were half the visitors from schools outside Southwark? Also, those from Southwark were they the highest performing schools?

One parent expressed to me concern it was used as an easy day out which seemed harsh.

One the key aspects of our recent local election manifesot was devolving lots more powersna budgets to community councils. So if the local community council had decided this was THE most important local youth faciltiy they would have been able reopen it.

Eitherway we lost the election and Labour have promised to reopen it.

[DJKillaQueen]

I accept the reasoning for transferring/ closing the museum. But what was the thinking behind selling off the building when it could have been leased for a new use. Thankfully legislation stopped that little folly.

[James Barber]

If the building had ever been sold it was decided up front, when we internally debated within the Lib Dem group about closing the Livesey museum to make the required revenue savings, that any proceeds from a sale would have to be ring fenced for the benefit of local kids.

I was really chuffed to then find out it couldn't be sold but that Peckham Theatre would take it over.

[TonyQuinn]

Please Mr Barber.....do not deceive us. You are with the Tories now. You understand the implications of what your leadership has done. Laws has gone.....where will you go when the big man Nick goes too.?

[James Barber]

Hi TonyQuinn,

What a black and white simple world you must live in.

Nationally Liberal Democrats are in coalition with the Tories. That means we've compromised on some things, had our way on others and conceded on others. My private, professional and political parts of my life are a series of such meetings of minds. Within every political party great debates and compromises.

So, have we sold out by forming a coalition. Clearly not.

[blackmamba]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> One the key aspects of our recent local election

> manifesot was devolving lots more powersna budgets

> to community councils. So if the local community

> council had decided this was THE most important

> local youth faciltiy they would have been able

> reopen it.

> Eitherway we lost the election and Labour have

> promised to reopen it.

Hi James my view is that the devolution of power to community councils is no democratic panacea. Community councils, like all councils, are only as good as the sum of their parts.

[DJKillaQueen]

'So, have we sold out by forming a coalition. Clearly not.'

Err I think the electorate at the next general election will decide that you have. I like many others are fed up of this mantra of 'what option do we have' as an excuse for delivering to those who voted for them the opposite of what they voted for. The Lib Dems are betraying their voters and they will pay the price for that.

But local councils are different. They at least (if the councillor is doing his or her job properly) allow the community to effectively engage in and shape local decision making. Community Councils are an important part of that and where local councillors like yourself James do work hard to engage with the people you represent (and listen to their views) then the machine works very well. But what can we do about those councillors that are 'invisible' and how do these people manage to get selected as candidates in the first place?

[????]

The liberal democrats are finally in governmant effecting change, having to be responsible and at laest opening the door to electoral reform.....ironic that they're been turned against, mainly by the usual suspects on the left, for actually getting in power for the first time since the 1st World War. Tough having to actually make responsible decisions eh? I'll be voting for them again.

[DJKillaQueen]

Oh it's always the left isn't it...bog standard response from Tories masquerading as Liberal Democrats.

They didn't get into power they came THIRD. And in order to form a coalition they broke promises on VAT, Trident, abolishing student fees...need I go on? And as for electoral reform even that won't be what they campaigned for. Those are some of the grievances that many people I know who voted Liberal Democrat have....none of whom ever would have voted Tory either.....they DO feel betrayed.

It's nothing to do with left or right...just the simple case of voting for one thing and then seeing those MPs you voted for totally abandon what pursuaded you to give them your vote in the first place. Not rocket science. And completely disingenuous.

[????]

That's governemnt, compromsing on 'principles' when you have to, er, govern rather than take principled standpoints from a dead easy position of non-power. That's why Tony Benn resigned when he aws a minister as he found making actual decision rather than pontificating on socialsim far harder. The fact that many Liberal Democrats are apparently rebelling suggests that perhaps is where their comfortable default position is too. Meanwhile we have horrendous problems to face which the coalition is making a reasonable stab at so far and I get the sense that many people outside of the media kind of thinks so too.

[????]

PS it's a secret ballot but I voted Liberal Democrat so don't make personal judgements on your own prejudices eh

[DJKillaQueen]

Campaigning on one thing to get elected and then ditching what you got elected for is a straighforward issue of 'can we trust the politicians to stick by the things they campaigned on'? It's nothing to do with any prejudice on my part.

You on the other hand dismiss any criticism of the coalition as the witterings of the left (which also has nothing to do with my point). Many voters feel let down when they vote for one set of policies and get another. Some Lib Dem backbenchers are NOT happy with the decisions Nick Clegg has agreed to. It will cost some Libs Dems at the next parliamentary elections which is exactly why some backbenchers are very twitchy.

That's what happens when you get no overall government...the majority of electorate did not vote for this. And to then take the stance that this lot are somehow more responsible in government than the last lot.......tell that to the half million public sector workers about to lose their jobs, or the poor about to see the measly benefits the get cut, whilst NOTHING is done about the banks and the ridiculous cost of housing in this country (a far more effective way of cutting the biggest part of the welfare bill - Housing Benefit). After it it wasn't the poor and unemployed that got us into this mess was it?

Some of the cuts being proposed are actually going to cost the country MORE money than they save. The Cabinet know this but won't publish their true figures as requested by Harman in Prime Ministers questions last week (these are secret figures compiled by Cabinet and then partially leaked). When asked about the rate of rise of expected unemployment from Cameron, he completely dodged the question, trying to divert it back to labour with some vague point that unemployment was already rising under Labour. There are policies being set that are clearly more idealogical than being both progressive and fair. Some of it is the same rhetoric we heard in the 80s and I remember only too well the consequences for a whole generation of people in some parts of the country.

There's nothing wrong with cuts but if you don't then invest in people and the economy there will be NO recovery. Worse still why cut if the consequences end up costing more?

If you really want to know my view I think all parties are too far one way or the other. You mentioned Tony Benn...well he was from a generation of politicians (on all sides) that were infinitely more intelligent than Clegg, Cameron, Milliband and todays motley crew. We could do do with them a few of them now.

[????]

They were always a load of foooking chralatans. Having a pipe and speaking poshly doesn't make one intelligent..."mao tse tung the greatest man of the 2Oth Century", yeah...nice one Anthony

[Mick Mac]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> PS it's a secret ballot but I voted Liberal

> Democrat so don't make personal judgements on your

> own prejudices eh

But you are a tory ...no?..... have I misunderstood your right wing mutterings?

[????]

*looks at worm, swims by*

[DJKillaQueen]

Tony Benn (whilst I too didn't agree with a lot of his views) was an extremely intelligent man. Not sharing a view is not grounds for dismissing intellect. The intellectuals left politics two decades ago and now we are left with bland and of average intellect career politicians where spin and image is worth far more than any substance. Where are the visionaries? Where is just the radical honesty even?

For example, I think it's shamefull that one third of workers renting in the private sector need housing benefit to pay part of the rent, paid for by you and me - our taxes (and both previous Labour and Conservative governments in collusion with the banks have allowed this to happen). If Cameron wanted to be truly radical he could have introduced rent capping and saved the tax payer far more money than the propsed HB blanket capping. He has done NOTHING to help the lack of affordable housing, in fact just the opposite in potentially forcing 2 million people and families out of their current accomodation in search of cheaper and probably unsuitably smaller accomodation, and for what? Savings that will barely make a dent in the HB bill - and no savings when you add the half million public sector workers expected to lose their jobs.

Look also at the withdrawal of the Sheffield Forge grant for example - a grant that would have untimately been paid back and created 3000 jobs in an area were there is high unemployment (the unemployed outnumber available vacancies by 8 to 1)- not to mention making that plant at the forefront of nuclear energy technolgy. Their reasoning was simply that it was unfair to give a grant of ?80million to one company (that the banks should do it in the form of a loan, at a time when they aren't lending!). Completely short sighted and dumb. And to the unemployed? If you are a council tenant you should give up your low rent assured tenancy and move! That's all they can come up with?

We are back to the classic Conservative belief that the free market will take care of everything....well we know that it most certainly doesn't...isn't that what let the banks lose on the housing market in the first place? That's what you get from a Prime minister of average intellect in denial of the real causes of the rot in our boom and bust short term economy. He knows nothing else.

Don't get me wrong....Labour messed up on those points too but the issue with the banks would have happened whether the government had been Labour or Conservative because they both think exactly the same way on the housing market, credit/debt and banks. The difference is that Labour did change a lot of things for the better after the last Conservative government left our country and whole groups of marginalised people to rot. OK maybe that investment went too far in some areas, but a return back to the austere 'survival of the fittest' policy of Thatcherite Conservatism is not the answer.

[DJKillaQueen]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > PS it's a secret ballot but I voted Liberal

> > Democrat so don't make personal judgements on

> your

> > own prejudices eh

>

>

> But you are a tory ...no?..... have I

> misunderstood your right wing mutterings?

LOL...

What started this whole thing off is that my view (which is critical of the coalition on certain aspects of their policies so far) was dimissed out of had as left wing prejudice, when actually it has nothing to do with political bias and everything to do with getting a fair deal for the social groups that Conservatives traditionally attack.

Which is why I'm trying to discuss specific policy points and ???? is replying with some ideological attack of the left - not that labour are a left wing party anymore and haven't been for more than a decade. In fact they occupy the centre ground that was pre Thatcherite Conservatism!

[????]

woooooooooooosh

[????]

Is Tony Benn dead by the way? Given he 'was an extremley intelligent man'.

[DJKillaQueen]

No he's alive out there somewhere. I think these days he does lectures and supports the odd 'stop the war' campaign and so on. Apparently he has become even more left wing as he ages, whereas Thatcher just took up whisky as a hobby! lol

Hilary isn't a patch on his dad though.