Costa coffee coming to Rye Lane, Peckham.

[Louisa]

More breaking news on the new shops front. I've just noticed that Costa Coffee have put forward an application to turn Unit 1 at the Aylesham Centre on Rye Lane into a new branch. Is this good or bad? I don't drink coffee, but I know many people do and from a commuters point of view this is potentially a very good thing. I'm assuming this move was inevitable from one of the big coffee chains eventually, seeing as how Rye Lane had been lagging behind on the coffee shop front for some time. From a negative point, is this yet further evidence that Peckham is gentrifying at a pace now? What do we all think? What with Foxtons, Turtle Bay and a few other chains putting in planning applications is this the point at which chains are going to move in on mass? Here's the link to the application on Southwark's Planning Portal:

planbuild.southwark.gov.uk:8190/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=_STHWR_DCAPR_9566268

Louisa.

[LondonMix]

Well, there are already loads of high street chains on Rye Lane (Subways, McDonalds, Primark, Clarks etc) so I'd call it inevitable.

Rye Lane will continue to attract big chains, though perhaps slightly more upmarket ones. Bellenden Road and the side roads of Peckham Rye will probably be where all the indies congregate.

[One Dulwich]

There are loads of chains in Peckham and I don't think a Costa is evidence of gentrification anymore. They're everywhere.

[Louisa]

Peckham lost a lot of chains through the 80's/90's, when it became down-at-heel. The return of chains isn't a bad thing, but it's the type of chains and the locations they're choosing which is interesting. Foxtons look like wanting to take on a site which has never been a chain and actually has been empty for many years now. The same goes for Turtle Bay (not sure the ins and outs of this one, no news). Unit 1 Rye Lane is currently Blue Inc which I believe is/was in administration? So a like for like chain replacement isn't a big issue, but who was it who said coffee shops were a sign of something afoot?

Louisa.

[Mick Mac]

I suspect this is going to be a very boring thread. Same old same old.

[ed_pete]

Wish I had the time to browse the Planning Portal 24/7

[Jeremy]

Good or bad? Indifferent. One boring chain replacing another. There are already better places to grab a coffee, but I'm sure it will do OK.

[TheArtfulDogger]

I'm going to sit down with a coffee and watch this thread with interest lol

Peckham used to be called the golden mile as its shops and department stores rivalled Oxford street in the 60s and 70s so it will be lovely to see it return to its former glory... Now if only sweaty Betty would open on rye lane ....

[uncleglen]

At least they pay the full tax whack....The large store on the corner of Hanover Park and Rye lane was a beacon to the status of Peckham. When I first moved to ED it was an M and S, then it changed to a BHS, and then a Primark...

[DulwichFox]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> At least they pay the full tax whack....The large

> store on the corner of Hanover Park and Rye lane

> was a beacon to the status of Peckham. When I

> first moved to ED it was an M and S, then it

> changed to a BHS, and then a Primark...

It was Never a M&S.. My mother worked there during the War..

M&S was where Argos is now..

Foxy

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

So Costa opening in ED is BAD - cue wailing and flailing of arms & regurgitation of "gentrification" diatribe.

Costa opening in Peckham though is GOOD. For salt of the earth, "real' blue collar yarda yarda yarda.

Can we ban posters from the Lounge as well as ED Issues/Gossip?

Same old drivel.....

[dirac]

There's already plenty of places to get coffee on rye lane/the area. Bobs cafe, motown cafe in station, that new one that's a sort of 'vintage' shop, that greasy spoon opposite station entrance, the place next to honest burger with no name etc etc. They are all within a 10 metre walk of the station! And down that way you have Gregs. I personally am not fussed either way but it would be a shame to see all those other ones go.

[JohnL]

Coffee places just seem to fill however many there are.

Note the thread about Lerryns garden/petition too.

[One Dulwich]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Good or bad? Indifferent. One boring chain

> replacing another. There are already better places

> to grab a coffee, but I'm sure it will do OK.

^this.

[uncleglen]

Oh sorry- BHS, One-up, Primark- I knew it had 3 changes- still an indicator of the changing 'fortunes' of Rye lane

[Michael Palaeologus]

Costa tend to be the first to move into an area as it regenerates, they do seem to be more daring than Neros or Starbucks.

I say this as someone who has spent that past 25 years schleping round the streets of London looking for a coffee shop in between meetings.

That Costa is on its way doesnt automatically mean that the others will follow, but in the case of Peckham, I suspect that they will as and when they find suitable plots.

ED is of course a thriving and up-market commercial centre that has its fair share of indie coffee shops, it also has limited suitable coffee shop sites. Peckham has been on its @rse for years, i snow on the up and has plenty of plots that could be developed by coffee shop chains, whilst supporting the indies that already exist.

The challenge of course is to harness the economic regeneration of Peckham to the advantage of local people.

[Louisa]

For the sceptics accusing me of making a big deal out of nothing, read this little snippet from a local estate agent article, about Peckham.

"For example, The Brick House artisanal bakery has set up on the borders of Peckham and the Old Spike Roastery recently opened on Peckham Rye. But there?s still a long way to go before Costa and Starbucks set up shop in Peckham, much to many locals? relief." - https://www.kfh.co.uk/londonpropertymarket/south-east/why-is-peckham-picking-up

I was NOT trying to spark yet another debate about gentrification, or coffee or anything else. Just letting people know that a particular chain was coming to the area! Isn't this forum about being helpful and informing people of new things coming to the locality?

Louisa.

[FJDGoose]

I've never seen anyone selling kale from a caravan on Goose Green.

[Seabag]

I had conversation with an restaurant I ndustry freind yesterday, as to who's actively seeking to open in Peckham. Lou, you could have a field day once the sites are secured & the applications go in

I'm more inclined to think of these things as restoration as opposed to gentrification, as Peckham was gentrified when many of the house we see today were built. Or does 'Gentrification' give the discussion that extra bite you're looking for, a bit of 'them vs us' to gnaw on (whoever 'them vs us' is). But either way, they're coming, and they're good operators with good products

Genuine question: What constitutes a chain? What if the business started locally. What if the group are London based only, does this up their cred?

[DulwichFox]

Gentrification is not so much the Establishment itself but the Type of people they are trying to attract.

A sort of Clientele Cleansing. Getting rid of the riff-raff.

DulwichFox

[Louisa]

FJDGoose, oddly neither have I, I think I was just making a general point about pop-up style experiments. But mark my words, it won't be long before raw veg is sold at treble the retail price from a VW camper van parked up on a conspicuous green local space.

Seabag, you are probably spot on. I've already seen suggested chains linked into planning applications already. What seems odd to me, why is it mostly restaurants and not retail wanting to give Peckham a second chance? A Next or H&M would be most welcome on Rye Lane, but instead we are landed with chain restaurants and the like! Out of interest, could you give a flavour of the brands eyeing up the lane? To answer your question, what I consider to be a chain is something which sits comfortably between basic crap fast food, and something more high end and niche. Big standard high street chain restaurants that sell average food at higher end prices. Nothing unique whatsoever about their offering.

Louisa.

[Louisa]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Gentrification is not so much the Establishment

> itself but the Type of people they are trying to

> attract.

>

> A sort of Clientele Cleansing. Getting rid of

> the riff-raff.

>

> DulwichFox

This is the best point so far on this topic. Food & night life gentrification seems to be the route Peckham is going down (siting comfortably with the likes of Dalston, Shoreditch & Clapham). Clientele cleansing is inevitably part of this process as it aims to exclude parts of society who may struggle to go for regular trips to restaurants. Some of the lovely independents/smaller chains that have opened up along Peckham Rye, Bellenden road and Blenheim Grove, let's be frank about it, they're marketing their offering at middle class people, and not really anyone else. It's a sort of food cleansing by proxy.

Louisa.

[BrandNewGuy]

There's a big Costa Coffee on Denmark Hill near Camberwell Green - where Woolies / 99p store / Peacock's used to be. Seems to be very popular and not obviously full of toffs.

[Seabag]

All business are money generating machines of smaller and larger magnitude. So it's reasonable to assume that the new business are after a cash spending client, ones that are loyal and regular, ones with a larger part of their income to spend on leisure. I'm not sure where a business would want to open not to capitalise on those things

So Peckham finds itself in the eye of a perfect storm. It has a history and a near mythological status. Ask anyone in the country and they'll have heard of the place, good ol' Del Boy and all that. It also sits on the cusp of a number of much improved rail and bus services, so it's dead easy to get too. And to the new arrivals and the spectators, it's fascinating. To those without, it's challenging to watch what they sat on for years turn, revive and move along. And as with many of these things comes displacement, it's the natural part of a cyclical and historic trend

More as much, it trails and blazes a new and well worn path. Shoreditch, Dalston, Hackney, have all been through the process. But now the teams and operators who made their names there are bringing their cash and know-how here, and to other places, like Brixton and East Croydon. They know how to work with the councils and show the authorities how they did it before, so by experience and with the clout that brings, they get things done quicker, slicker and that's how any operator makes it work.

Added to that, the operators who set up small in the old days (5 years ago) are now backed by serious people with serious cash, and that needs investing and turning a profit on. It's what business does as it grows, but whereas the original concepts were a risk, then as they've grown and shown a return, then some 'cookie cutting' repeat of that model is likely.

But then that's the same with all business that takes the challenge and monetises it, the conservative vs innovative has to become less risk averse, hence the 'mini-chain' effect. And with the likes of London Union/Street feast valuing at ?35 million you can be sure where the eyes creating these events are looking.

I personally know of a number of traders who 5 years ago were one man op's and are now trading above the + million pound mark, all from street food, with some of those operators now into bricks and mortar businesses. They are all looking and mulling Peckham over, some stronger than others. But momentum isn't stopping, that's key

So what to expect more of, just take a look at Shoreditch, Dalston, Soho, Whitechapel, the rest of the developing cities worldwide. More food, more bars with that, more festivals. It's where cash changes hands more often than most, it's where money can be made. But like I said in the opening, business is about money.

And Peckham is where some of the money is focused at right now. Then as the trading safety of the the place improves (trading results that is) then the bigger/safer/regular chains will be looking at Peckham again

And if you're up for it or not, it's coming. You may need more than an umbrella to weather it out

[clockworkorange]

Restaurants cafes etc are where the demand is. People typically spend more on f&b than clothes etc now. People like to socialise not shop, though sometimes one and the same. Plus, the future of shopping is online, so shops need less space, and can be picky about where they go. Finally, Peckham still probably the wrong demographic for likes of h&m and definitely next.

You'll be pleased to know that decent f&b is likely to increase footfall and dwell time in rye lane and thus, notwithstanding my comments above, will likely attract more shops. The cycle goes on.