I heard the news today, oh boy..

[atila the gooner]

If you can't do the time............

[SeanMacGabhann]

A fact is a fact is a fact - but media (and not just tabloids) do sensationalise by focusing on a subset of FACTS which do not portray the whole event

It is pretty easy to make anyone look bad and be factual (talking about generally, not about the killer in this case) - you, me, anyone of us would wither under a factual lens focusing on "bad things"

On a more serious note - The whole NoW campaign to publish picture of child-molestors for example was factual but sensationalist - as a result several innocent people got injured and attacked. If other facts were included to contextualise the actual threat then society would benefit

[Huguenot]

Ah come on guys, I'm not sure I'm with ATG all the way, but having been the victim of a vicious beating from a guy who was on bail for GBH and subsequently went down for attempted murder after smashing my head repeatedly into a railing this bleeding heart liberal stuff has limited legs. I thought the guys were going to rape and murder my girlfriend next. All hail kebab shop owners with telephones.

Please don't observe 'you thought...', try being there.

There's no fugging moveable 'relativity'. Yep, we don't know about this particular crim, but 12 years minimum would possibly suggest guilt?

Some guys are feral. They'll kill you for fun. Stroking their hair and telling them you appreciate the boredom is pointless.

Silly talk.

[atila the gooner]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ah come on guys, I'm not sure I'm with ATG all the

> way, but having been the victim of a vicious

> beating from a guy who was on bail for GBH and

> subsequently went down for attempted murder after

> smashing my head repeatedly into a railing this

> bleeding heart liberal stuff has limited legs. I

> thought the guys were going to rape and murder my

> girlfriend next. All hail kebab shop owners with

> telephones.

>

> Please don't observe 'you thought...', try being

> there.

>

> There's no fugging moveable 'relativity'. Yep, we

> don't know about this particular crim, but 12

> years minimum would possibly suggest guilt?

>

> Some guys are feral. They'll kill you for fun.

> Stroking their hair and telling them you

> appreciate the boredom is pointless.

>

> Silly talk.

Sorry to hear about your horrendous experience, but it does go to show that I don't spout shite all the time. My concern is for people like you that seem to get little of feck all from the system following such attacks and all the focus seems to be on the criminals and what they should get to make them "better members of society". It makes me both sad and angry.

[DaveR]

Atila, the guy in this case got a life sentence with a 12 year minimum - is it out of touch, or being a bleeding heart liberal, to suggest that might be a reasonable punishment?

The tabloids will always scream "only hanging is good enough, only 12 years in prison, no second chances, the victim never got a second chance" etc. Do we hang all murderers? Or give them all a whole life sentence?

The point is that judges actually have to make dispassionate decisions - what is the appropriate sentence for a truly terrible crime - and they do it regularly. Far from being out of touch, judges in the criminal courts have seen more misery, mayhem and bloodshed than any of us.

Your comparison with the legal director of a finance company doesn't seem particualry relevant.

citizenED is also dead right about prison - the sad thing is that for a lot of inmates, being surrounded by drugs and violence is not much of a shock - that's what they're used to on the outside.

[atila the gooner]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Atila, the guy in this case got a life sentence

> with a 12 year minimum - is it out of touch, or

> being a bleeding heart liberal, to suggest that

> might be a reasonable punishment?

>

Erm............out of touch......yes, by a country mile. Reasonable as in the reasonable treatment dealt out to the victim you mean. Yes we should give the criminal the same "reasonable" treatment he gave the dead man.

[atila the gooner]

An anti-smoking group in Liverpool is calling for all movies with smoking scenes to be given an 18 certificate.

SmokeFree Liverpool told BBC's Radio 5 Live it wanted to see the change but the film classification board said the idea was "heavy-handed".

The push - backed by the city council - comes amid research showing young people pick up the bad habit from watching films containing smoking.

While I applaud any effort to steer the youth of today away from bad habits, and towards a healthy life style, a better moral code, blah, blah, blah, I wonder if they are also thinking of placing greater censorship on films depicting graphic violence, casual sex, etc as these may lead weak willed souls to copy what they see on screen. Yet another instance of over reaction methinks. I just hope they place censorship on any film or TV clips of people crossing the road anywhere other than a designated crossing, as this may lead people to take their lives into their own hands when crossing the road as result of copying what they see on screen. For F**ks sake, I'd love a job like theirs, sitting on by backside dreaming up daft schemes and being paid for it. Nice work if you can get it!!!

[mockney piers]

Once again, with its finger on the pulse...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-%26-entertainment/manhunt-2-released-after-smoking-scenes-cut-20080317797/

[Brendan]

I've just read the Daily Mash article: QUEEN UNABLE TO FIND OFFICIAL OPENING AREA AT TERMINAL FIVE

and had to share it with the office as I was laughing out loud.

[Keef]

I've only just caught up on this thread and all the capital punishment stuff. Don't mean to start it all again, but just to add my opinion.

Whatever a person does, I don't think it is the right of any other person to take their life. No one should have to sign that paper, no one should have to administer that injection, and for those who would gladly do these things, no one should have that power!

Some people can't be rehabilitated, that is clear, but I can't bring myself to agree with killing even the most evil person.

That said, I think I would rather be killed than have to endure solitary confinement for years, that would be the worst kind of torture!

Piers, your point about America / Religion is a good one, but a lot of them tend to be in to the real fire and brimstone angry old testament God, eye for an eye and all that. JC "turn the other cheek" was just a big hippy (there is a great book called Sacred Mushroom and the cross" which actually argues that they were off it the whole time), and he ended up getting strung up quite literally. :-S

[SteveT]

It was suggested that if they had polled the great British public,

then hanging would not have ceased when it did,

as around 70% of us believed it was an essential tool, to deal with all those murderous villains.

[mockney piers]

Blimey, the independent is really going for it today.

Lies

Stupidity

Despair

So I'll finish up with some lighthearted fun poked at that target, metaphorically the size of a barn door, Heather Mills

[Michael Palaeologus]

I have little sympathy for those that create extreme pain and suffering. However, I am and will always remain an opponent of the death sentence.

My reasoning is simple. As long as the legal system remains flawed then there is a chance that an innocent person will be killed by the state. As the legal system is run by humans it will always be flawed and so therefore a miss-carriage of justice will always be possible, therefore capital punishment can never be allowed.

Those that suffer a miss-carriage of justice will suffer terribly, but at least they are still alive and can be let out of prison and compensated. This will NEVER be enough BUT at least they are still alive.

For me, the chance that one innocent person could be executed by the state is enough to under-mine any argument for capital punishment.

[SeanMacGabhann]

splendid Mockney, splendid

[LizzygotDizzy]

Am I the only one who actually feels sorry for Heather Mills at the moment. I know she is money grabbing blah, blah, blah, but she is only doing what hundreds before her have done in the way of trying to get the best (even if not very deserved) settlement for her Divorce, McCartney is hardly short of a few bob is he! I do feel the relentless and sometimes extremely personal jibes and attacks on her are nothing short of bullying but on a national level and no-one is saying what they should be like, what the hell does the fact she have one leg got to do with it, and personally mocking her for it, leaves a bad taste in the mouth if you ask me, I know loads of you are going to jump on the bandwagon and say, well she asked for it, she's her own worst enemy,and hasn't made many wise choices where her behaviour in relation to her divorce was concerned, while a lot of this is true, does she really deserved to be publicly and on such a mass level, hung drawn and quartered? I don't find it very nice at all.

[jumpinjackflash]

LizzygotDizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Am I the only one who actually feels sorry for

> Heather Mills at the moment. I know she is money

> grabbing blah, blah, blah, but she is only doing

> what hundreds before her have done in the way of

> trying to get the best (even if not very deserved)

> settlement for her Divorce, McCartney is hardly

> short of a few bob is he! I do feel the

> relentless and sometimes extremely personal jibes

> and attacks on her are nothing short of bullying

> but on a national level and no-one is saying what

> they should be like, what the hell does the fact

> she have one leg got to do with it, and personally

> mocking her for it, leaves a bad taste in the

> mouth if you ask me, I know loads of you are going

> to jump on the bandwagon and say, well she asked

> for it, she's her own worst enemy,and hasn't made

> many wise choices where her behaviour in relation

> to her divorce was concerned, while a lot of this

> is true, does she really deserved to be publicly

> and on such a mass level, hung drawn and

> quartered? I don't find it very nice at all.

Think this is going to be the start of a very long thread... I personally can't stand the old whore

[LizzygotDizzy]

Says he/she of such miraculous moral fibre...

[jumpinjackflash]

jumpinjackflash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LizzygotDizzy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Am I the only one who actually feels sorry for

> > Heather Mills at the moment. I know she is

> money

> > grabbing blah, blah, blah, but she is only

> doing

> > what hundreds before her have done in the way

> of

> > trying to get the best (even if not very

> deserved)

> > settlement for her Divorce, McCartney is hardly

> > short of a few bob is he! I do feel the

> > relentless and sometimes extremely personal

> jibes

> > and attacks on her are nothing short of

> bullying

> > but on a national level and no-one is saying

> what

> > they should be like, what the hell does the

> fact

> > she have one leg got to do with it, and

> personally

> > mocking her for it, leaves a bad taste in the

> > mouth if you ask me, I know loads of you are

> going

> > to jump on the bandwagon and say, well she

> asked

> > for it, she's her own worst enemy,and hasn't

> made

> > many wise choices where her behaviour in

> relation

> > to her divorce was concerned, while a lot of

> this

> > is true, does she really deserved to be

> publicly

> > and on such a mass level, hung drawn and

> > quartered? I don't find it very nice at all.

>

> Think this is going to be the start of a very long

> thread... I personally can't stand the old whore

i meant the start of a Heather Mills thread... still can't stand her

[jumpinjackflash]

LizzygotDizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Says he/she of such miraculous moral fibre...

damn right!!!

[Brendan]

So an older rich guy gets divorced from a younger woman with questionable motives and a bitter legal battle ensues.

Why is this worthy of mention in the media?

Granted the guy is a rock ?n roll legend and a bit of an idiot but neither of these facts have anything to do with anything. Perhaps it would be relevant in a journal on divorce law.

Meanwhile there are riots in Tibet, imminent war with Iran, continuing instability in Iraq and Afghanistan, The US are likely to destabilise Venezuela, Zanzibar has announced a coalition government, Zimbabwe is slipping further into chaos, South Africa is on the brink of infrastructure collapse after years of corruption and self-defeating reform policies, Kenya has decided that the way to contest an election is by civil war which is a policy they seem to have adopted from Somalia, China is becoming the worlds limited liability workhouse, The Balkans are looking iffy again, Russia is rearming and England have series deciding test match coming up in 2 days time.

[mockney piers]

I'm not particularly fond of either of them, and ye,s divorces are often nasty and bitter with both trying to get what they can out of it.

She should just learn when to shut the **** up; seriously!

Plus you're not a celebrity love,* you just married one.

*as if this is somehow a desirable status to attain in itself...depressing. On a similar note I'm glad to see my post sparked this vital debate. :-/

*what's wiv me grammar today?*

[lozzyloz]

Brendan you could say that about 90% of what we're fed in most of the mainstream news across all media types. But I suspect you know the answer to that. We just can't cope with more depressing England cricket news.

Is it just me or does Heather look more attractive now that she's ?24.3m richer? Perhaps it's the new carbon fibre prosthetic.

[jumpinjackflash]

lozzyloz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Brendan you could say that about 90% of what we're

> fed in most of the mainstream news across all

> media types. But I suspect you know the answer to

> that. We just can't cope with more depressing

> England cricket news.

>

> Is it just me or does Heather look more attractive

> now that she's ?24.3m richer? Perhaps it's the new

> carbon fibre prosthetic.

attractive? she looks like an Afghan Hound cross Fiona Phillips (GMTV)

[SeanMacGabhann]

well they key question you asked is:

" does she really deserved to be publicly and on such a mass level, hung drawn and quartered? I don't find it very nice at all."

As with Mockney I care little for either party in this divorce but she has outrageously courted publicity and has, with no little indignity, tried to get her on her side. She has failed to do so, not because of any wooden leg but because she is, and I don't need a judge to tell me this, out of touch with reality. There are no shortage of quotes to back this up so I won't bother - but the short answer to your question is "yes"

[Jah Lush]

Heather Mills is a sociopath. She's a deranged old slapper who is completely out of touch with reality. The point is after just four years of marriage she has come out of this missy divorce case a very rich woman. Not as rich as she would have liked but richer than most of us will ever be.