Bottle feeding

[Ruth_Baldock]

Life is a cruel joke. I'm sure that all of you lovely Mums (and Dads!) are sick of me posting, but...tough titties (pun intended)

Baby Baldock is losing weight. Rapidly. I have tried boosting my supply with all the usual tricks: Fenugreek, a 'nursing vacation', lots of skin to skin, getting him to latch on all the live-long day, but nothing doing. Then, last week, we were both ill and my supply dwindled to practically nothing. On the GP's advice, we started to supplement with Aptamil, but today he's had more formula feeds than breast and seems happier- because he's fuller. I'm pleased he is full and happy, but I am gutted that our nursing relationship is over so soon :(

I am also in the position of knowing NOTHING about formula feeding; I know how to make the feeds up in our house, but what if we're out? I have to get a train to far, far away (Well...Epsom) soon, and I don't know how to feed him because I was under the impression you have to chuck feeds away after 2 hours and can't make pre-made ones to take out anyway. I know you can get cartons of pre-mixed formula, but how do you heat them up? Presumably I will have to invest in a bottle warmer.

Woe. WOE IS ME. I am a sad person today and not just because Baby Baldock woke up every 30 minutes last night (yes you did read that correctly).

[sillywoman]

Oh Ruth, have you sought help from the women at the breastfeeding cafe's? The one in Peckham Library (Thursday mornings?) is excellent so I've heard, also the one in Deptford Creek (Tuesdays?), they have breastfeeding counsellors & 'lactation consultants and all sorts of feeding professionals.

It's so frightening when your baby loses weight, & can be so disheartening when they put it all back on with formula. But all is not lost - if baby Baldock's weight is at an acceptable level for the health professionals, then you can start increasing the amount of breastfeeds again & decreasing the amount of formula feeds proportionally. My neighbour (for other health reasons) breastfed her baby for 18 months, but he had one bottle of formula every day. It's just the way it worked best for them. Don't despair, don't give up - seek good professional help. Do it now!

[Ruth_Baldock]

I was going to walk down to the one in Peckham on Thursday and hope I don't start crying and sobbing 'Heeeeellllppp meeeeeeeeee'. It's so ironic because I used to have a problem with over-supply and Baby Baldock was on the 75th percentile for so long. Now? Not so much. Poor bubs!

And...er...not to sound selfish but we apparently should be waking him every 2-4 hours for a feed and JUST before he got ill, he'd finally started to only wake up once in the night. I know it's the best thing for his health and all, but really do feel like the Parenting Gods are having a good old chuckle at my expense.

[Belle]

Ruth - am sure you'd not be the first person to cry at a breastfeeding cafe and I've only heard good things about them. If you do need to bottle feed come the time of your trip or any other shorter trips it's dead easy. Take a little carton of ready made stuff if you want to be extra safe (I got more lax as time went on and took pre made bottles in an insulated bottle carrier) - always take one more than you think you'll need - and take a ready made up sterilised bottle. I never bothered warming bottles but if you want to do this you can either rely on asking for a bowl of hot water in cafes etc or if thinking you might need to feed en route, you can buy bottle warmer things I think (fisher price do a thermos one if i recall correctly but as I say never used them so other forumites may advise better) to stick in the change bag. If you'd rather use powder you can buy powder dispensers which carry the right 'dose' for whatever amount the babe is on at the time, and you can do things like take out bottles of cooled boiled water etc or even a flask of boiled water. Personally I'm all for making it easy so I went with ready made at home AND out and about! SMA do litre cartons...not the most economical but so much easier than the powder, but that's just me.

I stressed about bottle feeding a lot when I first started it so feel free to ask any questions, I do feel there's a lot of conflicting advice about making up feeds etc.

Obviously though do what you think is best - not trying to be a bottle pusher!!

[bumpy]

Milky Moments (what a great name) on a Wednesday morning (10-12) at the Rosendale Centre is a very small breast feeding clinic with only a handful of people so you really get some quality time with the extremely lovely lady who runs it - apologies but her name escapes me. I'm hoping to go this Wednesday if you didn't fancy going alone.

[gwod]

Parenting never goes entirely to plan.

I did mixed feeding very successfully with some of my children - so don't feel that your breastfeeding relationship is over if you dont want it to be. As for heating up formula on trains - I used to take a fat, food sized flask of hot water with me and chuck the whole ready made carton in it - easy peasy - and remember - unless you decide you want to stop breastfeeding - you'll still conveniently have your boobs with you!

I remember with my first baby, when I first decided I needed to supplement with formula, I stood in Boots in the formula aisle under a big sign that said "Breastfeeding is Best for your Child" weeping, so I do sympathise. She is now a loving, happy, healthy, smart 11 year old.

Wishing you guiltless, sleepful, peaceful evening.

[apenn]

I should preface this by saying that I've never used formula and have very little experience with bottles, but . . .

I read in a book (So That's What They're For that you don't actually need to heat formula. It's just done because it's closer to a breastfeed experience. If your baby will accept the formula cold or at room temp, apparently this is fine. The book even recommended that if you can get your baby to accept it this way all the better since it will make life easier. Don't know if there are any mums out there who've done this?

Regarding breasfeeding cafes, there is also one on Barry Rd on Mondays (never been). Here's a link to the breasfeeding support sheet I received from my workshop at Kings with details for all the local cafes and helpline numbers:

http://www.southwarkpct.nhs.uk/documents/5333.pdf

And looks like all the same info on the NCT website:

http://www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com/in-your-area/southwark/slbfeed/support

Best,

-A

[Mrs TP]

To get out and about:

1. Take cool boiled water in the bottle.

2. Take milk powder in a formula / milk powder dispenser (google it).

3. Treat yourself to a cup of tea in a cafe at the same time and ask them to heat it - most know what they are doing or will give you some hot water to stand it in. Or take a flask of hot water along as suggested above.

Also worth seeing if your baby will take a ready made carton at room temp - this saves masses of fuss.

I lasted a v. fraught and difficult month breast feeding my first and her weight seriously plummeted. Had a v. unsympathetic GP shouting at me that my baby should be starving hungry and should finish breast feeding in 20mins each morning. Had me in tears and feeling a complete failure.

Did much better with number 2 and lasted about 5mths. (Too busy worrying how I would cope with two children to worry about breast feeding and it just worked.)

Finally, huge success with number 3 (and despite a few fraught 'I am giving up' sessions along the way) lasted the full 12mths.

Second two had steady but slow weight gain until solids were introduced and then the weight piled on. I have also never been able to express. Breast feeding just isn't as easy as it is made out to be.

Enjoy your baby.

[trinity]

No need at all to warm formula - mine have been happy to accept it at room temp or indeed straight from the fridge. Maybe some lo are more fussy but I would try unwarmed milk first if you have chosen to go down that route.

[jrthomas_uk]

I struggled with my supply and after trying various methods of trying to increase it I eventually changed to the bottle. I used Aptamil and each morning made up 5 bottles of cooled, boiled water and 5 Tommee Tippee powder dispensers so that at each feed all I had to do was pour the powder into the bottle of water. My son happily drank the milk at room temperature which made life incredibly easy when out and about as I never had to heat the milk.

I missed our breastfeeding relationship but my son was much happier as he was full and content as opposed to semi-hungry all the time; he also started sleeping much better.

I'll try breastfeeding next time but I won't give myself such a hard time if it doesn't work out.

[Belle]

Apenn - I never heated my baby's bottles, partly because we started off with donor milk in hospital which was always just defrosted so barely room temperature! I have to say it's my single biggest tip for parents that basically babies don't need it warmed - and there's no real reason for doing it. As you say parents have always done it as a comfort thing, but if your baby will take a room temp bottle then you save yourself so much time (and fewer of those moments where the baby is starving and screaming!).

apenn Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> I read in a book (So That's What They're For that

> you don't actually need to heat formula. It's

> just done because it's closer to a breastfeed

> experience. If your baby will accept the formula

> cold or at room temp, apparently this is fine.

> The book even recommended that if you can get your

> baby to accept it this way all the better since it

> will make life easier. Don't know if there are

> any mums out there who've done this?

>

> Regarding breasfeeding cafes, there is also one on

> Barry Rd on Mondays (never been). Here's a link

> to the breasfeeding support sheet I received from

> my workshop at Kings with details for all the

> local cafes and helpline numbers:

>

> http://www.southwarkpct.nhs.uk/documents/5333.pdf

>

> And looks like all the same info on the NCT

> website:

> http://www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com/in-your-are

> a/southwark/slbfeed/support

>

> Best,

> -A

[The Nappy Lady]

Hugs Ruth,

Not much to add, except I saw in the Jo Jo Mamon brochure a thing you wear and slip a carton of ready made formula into so it heats it to body temperature which I thought was very clever - here;

http://www.jojomamanbebe.co.uk/detailfash.php?type=FASH&code=B9158&proddesc=Snug.Snak+Milk+Warming+Belt&supercategory=BRN00042&branch=&wcategory=CAT00272&catdesc=&super=0030BRN00042~0010BRN00052~0020CAT00272&treecode=TRE00009

Suspect just popping it inside your stretch top would do the same job though!

Really hope it works out for you, and that, if you want to carry on you are able to combine breast and bottle feeding. This may just be a temporary 'blip' due to you both being ill, so hope things will get back on track for you.

Molly

x

[Fuschia]

The advice though is to mix the powder with HOT water (boiled then cooled for about 30 mins) to kill any nasty bugs lurking in the powder, which isn't sterile. Then cool the feed under the tap. Making up the formula with cooled boiled weater misses this step out. The suggestion for travelling to use a carton (sterile) or

" In these situations, people should take hot water in a vacuum flask to make up a feed when needed. If this is not possible, they should prepare the feed and cool it in the fridge before transporting it in a cool bag and using it within four hours."

Guidance here: http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/2006/dec/infantform

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/formulaguidance.pdf

[missd]

I found it really helpful to mix up the temperature at which I gave my baby bottles. It made life a lot easier down the line when we were out and room temperature was the only/easiest temperature at which I could give him milk (ie straight from the carton). Sometimes, straight out of the fridge as one day you might have to? It means that they are not fussy about what temperature the milk has to be. Would highly recommend.

[redjam]

Ruth - I feel your pain. For what it's worth, my breastfed second child plummeted so far down the centiles in her weight chart that she literally went off the bottom of it at one point. I seemed to spend half my life shuttling her from one miserable health visitor appointment to another even more depressing hospital one. Everyone kept shaking their heads and saying sadly, 'Oh dear, she's not thriving, is she?', whilst at the same time urging me to continue breastfeeding, but just somehow do it better. I felt like the worst mother on earth. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish someone had given me 'permission' to stop breastfeeding much earlier, as once we eventually switched her on to formula she did start picking up weight again and was much happier for it.

Just to be clear: I'm not saying you should give up breastfeeding. I know how lovely it can be and how good for the baby it is when it goes well. Of course keep trying if you feel up to it. But if bottle-feeding is the fate the gods have decreed for you, don't beat yourself up about it. We're lucky we live in the 21st century when we can have these alternatives when the 'natural' way lets us down. Either way, good luck!

(Edited for repetition.)

[sillywoman]

apenn Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Regarding breasfeeding cafes, there is also one on

> Barry Rd on Mondays (never been). Here's a link

> to the breasfeeding support sheet I received from

> my workshop at Kings with details for all the

> local cafes and helpline numbers:

>

> http://www.southwarkpct.nhs.uk/documents/5333.pdf

>

> And looks like all the same info on the NCT

> website:

> http://www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com/in-your-are

> a/southwark/slbfeed/support

>

> Best,

> -A

I think that the Barry Rd Breastfeeding cafe no longer exists, or rather it does but not at Barry Rd. I think it's now at the Townley rd clinic, & I have a feeling it's on a Weds morning now rather than a Monday - but I could be wrong about that.

[veryseriousgirl]

For various reasons, breastfeeding didn't work out for not-so-serious-baby and me and we gave up after a week. I felt terribly guilty for ages (so much so that one of the midwives visitng us after the birth broke off mid-rant about how I should be breastfeeding and gave me a hug when she saw how upset I was). One of my friends sent me this article to comfort me (the title, "The Case Against Breastfeeding" is a lot harsher than the article itself), so if you need any reassurance, it did make me feel better.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/the-case-against-breast-feeding/7311/

My daughter has had the tummy bug going around, so was eating erratically and I really wanted to avoid situations where she was screaming for ages while I tried to get water boiled and cooled enough for bottles. A nurse from NHS direct confirmed that it's perfectly OK to keep boiled water in sterilised bottles for up to 24 hours at room temp or 48 hours in the fridge. When you want to use them, heat them to the temp you want to feed them to baby at, then add the powder at the last minute. You don't need to heat them if your baby will accept formula at room temp - and you can heat the water on its own in the microwave for a few seconds (never do that with formula, though!). When travelling, I normally put really freshly boiled water into the bottle and put it into an insulated holder where it cools down more slowly so will (with luck) be the right temperature when you mix the powder in (as mentioned above, the Tommy Tippee formula dosers are great).

Hope some of this is helpful - and it sounds like you are a wonderful mum to baby Baldock!

[Elle]

Hi all

I've just picked up this thread as i was about to ask for advice on combination feeding and where to get decent advice from on how to do it / quantities etc. Ruth, I empathise with your despair! My baby cries so hysterically if I get the quantities & timing wrong which makes sleeping a rare occurance during the day. Luckily we seem to have night time off to a fine art - phew!

Bumpy, I will try and go to milky moments tomorrow, it sounds great. I've been reluctant to go to the breasfeeding cafes as the breastfeeding experts i have spoken to so far just tell me that I will make what he needs which I clearly don't!

Meanwhile, any suggestions on tops ups welcome. Did you do staright after breastfeeding or after an hour, how much did you give, how often did you express / how much did you get and has anyone actually recovered to an adequate supply of milk??

[Smiler]

Don't beat yourself up, whatever you decide re. the feeding.

Agree with others that if you go the bottle feeding route, encourage the baby to take it cold / lukewarm; also encourage Mr Baldock to become the expert at bottle preparation!

Also try to eat well (or, if not possible, at least eat) yourself when you can!

Best wishes.

[anna75]

oh gosh Ruth, I wouldn't think twice about it and certainly wouldn't feel guilty. If the baby isn't putting on weight bf, then he needs formula and you are doing absolutely the right thing by providing him with it.

We made up 4 or 5 bottles at a time and kept them in the fridge. I should point out that this is NOT what is recommended nowadays - the guidelines changed about 2.5 years ago before which it was fine to do this - but it is the only way that worked for us, given the 25 mins cooling down time etc. We went out most days on trains etc, across London etc and just took the made up milk with us. My baby happily switched between warmed and not warmed milk largely by chance as we didn't have much of a clue about childrearing tbh. When she had injections, however, I became paranoid about getting as much fluid in as possible and I didn't want her waking through hunger so I always gave her warmed milk to guzzle down.

The other advantage of this (which also applied when I was expressing for the first few weeks) was that my husband could do some of the feeds. He really loved being invovled like that and it was also a great help to me, mentally, to know that I would get a good night's sleep every second night.

Hope that whatever you do works out and that you are happy with it.

ATB

Anna

[Bellenden Jo]

I too struggled with breastfeeding, but in the end switched to bottles, and both me and baby were a lot happier.

I used to put freshly boiled water in a bottle and then in an insulating bag and take that out and about with the powder in a dispenser, takes seconds to make up. Mine would never take a cold/lukewarm bottle so this worked well for me, and as others have said cafes are always happy to heat up a bottle.

For night feeds I would take bottle, dispenser and a bottle warmer up to bed and then it just took a few minutes to heat the bottle and I didn't need to get out of bed and go downstairs to do it!

Don't feel guilt over not being able to breastfeed, it isn't worth it. I'm sure all the pressure I had to breastfeed with my first added to my PND. Bottle feed and be proud about it!

[Fuschia]

veryseriousgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

A nurse from NHS direct

> confirmed that it's perfectly OK to keep boiled

> water in sterilised bottles for up to 24 hours at

> room temp or 48 hours in the fridge. When you

> want to use them, heat them to the temp you want

> to feed them to baby at, then add the powder at

> the last minute. You don't need to heat them if

> your baby will accept formula at room temp

I'm afraid that is NOT the advice that is now issued, after some incidents with contaminated formula powder and is another case of individual NHS staff straying away from the official position. Really, HOT water is needed to "scald" the powder... have a look at the FSA link I posted...

[Fuschia]

anna75 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> We made up 4 or 5 bottles at a time and kept them

> in the fridge. I should point out that this is NOT

> what is recommended nowadays - the guidelines

> changed about 2.5 years ago before which it was

> fine to do this - but it is the only way that

> worked for us, given the 25 mins cooling down time

> etc.

Actually, this IS the fallback position, if you can't make fresh with hot water and allow to cool

Making up with COOLED water is the thing that's not recommended at all.

"If you need to feed your baby away from home, it is

safest to carry a measured amount of milk powder

in a small clean and dry container, a flask of hot

water that has been boiled and an empty sterilised

feeding bottle. Make up a fresh feed whenever you

need it. The water must still be hot when you use it,

otherwise any bacteria in the milk powder may not

be destroyed.

Remember to cool the bottle under cold running

water before you use it.

Alternatively, you could use ready-to-drink infant

formula milk when you are away from home.

If it is not possible to follow the advice above, or

if you need to transport a feed ? for example to a

nursery or childminder ? you should prepare the

feed at home and cool it in the back of the fridge.

Take it out of the fridge just before you leave and

carry it in a cool bag with an ice pack. Use it within

four hours, or if you reach your destination within

four hours, take it out of the cool bag and store it at

the back of the fridge. Feeds should never be stored

for longer than 24 hours although this length of

time is no longer considered ideal, especially for

young babies. It is always safer to make up a fresh

feed whenever possible."

http://www.oxfordradcliffe.nhs.uk/forpatients/departments/womens/maternity%20services/100209bottlefeeding.pdf

[Belle]

must admit that's one of the reasons we stuck with the ready made stuff. Just seemed easier.

[Fuschia]

Belle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> must admit that's one of the reasons we stuck with

> the ready made stuff. Just seemed easier.

Expensive though