Voting Day - Heber School Closed

[pork chop]

Another London voting day... Another Heber School Closure.

I find it unacceptable, esp. in a week following a Bank Holiday Monday, that Heber again has to close for the vote to be organised.

2-3 tables will be put out with the voting booth nearby, and that will be that for furniture. Venues nearby that as far as I'm aware could be used instead include:

- Christ Church, Barry Rd

- Dulwich Library

- Dulwich Constitutional Club, East Dulwich Grove

Just looked through the list of Polling Stations used in Southwark and none of these are listed.

Closing Schools has to be the last resort, esp. with the strict line taken by schools towards children being taken out of class for early holidays.

With so little infrustructure needed to oragnise a vote, why can't one venue used for one ward - say St Clements Church Hall on Barry Rd - also be used for an adjacent ward. At worst it would mean a 5 min walk. Here there is also an adjacent community hall that could be used, but why not two polling booths side by side..?

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

Alternatively, we could do as the Australians do and have elections on a Saturday.

[bawdy-nan]

erm, both the library and Christ Church, Barry Road are being used today as polling stations ...

[Penguin68]

Granted it is disruptive, but placing polling in the heart of the education system (making it part of everyday life) - if used effectively by teachers might help encourage future commitments - voting and participative democracy is a cornerstone of our lives (or should be) - the more normalised voting can be seen to be (and the more aspirational reaching voting age can be positioned) surely the better. I am old enough to be a regular (indeed obsessive) voter - but that started at school with mock elections to mirror the real ones then taking place.

Rather than chivying elections out of children's (even primary children's) lives such opportunities should be embraced.

[Jeremy]

When I was at school (i.e. not particularly recently and not in Southwark), our school hall was used for voting... the school day went on as normal, we just didn't use the hall that day.

Problem is the security in schools is much tighter these days, so it would probably no longer be possible to do something like that (depending on the layout of the school).

[rendelharris]

I agree that it would be best if alternative venues were sought, but that's up to the council - schools are specifically not allowed to refuse if asked. I know it will be little consolation for those who have to organise alternative provision for their children, but it should be noted that the school governors have a duty to make up the extra day to ensure they deliver the statutory 380 half days per annum, so children are not missing a day's school, it's just being moved elsewhere in the year.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Does seem weird that they have to shut the whole school. Would have thought the whole thing could be done electronically by now.

[Jeremy]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Would have thought the whole thing could be done electronically by now.

The technology is not quite there yet... both in terms of security and authentication. Estonia have online voting.. they have the authentication part sorted by means of a mandatory smart ID card, but the security is still a big concern.

[James Barber]

The recent and previous Polling Stations reviews I asked that Heber School not be used.

But no obvious alternatives. We can't use The Castle pub because it doesn't have step free access. The church on corner of Lordship lane and Goodrich Road also doesn't have step free access.

This issue especially important with the EU referendum coming up and disrupting a second school week in the same school term is far from ideal.

[Earl Aelfheah]

A polling station at the pub would be good. I might take a bit more time to fully contemplate my vote.

[Reg Smeeton]

Does anyone ever consider what the cost to families is for closing a school for the day. There are about 450 children at Heber school, and parents have to arrange care or take holiday to look after them. Let's be ultra conservative and say that on average parents are having to fork out ?30 per child that they hadn't planned on spending (that's around ?13k). Then there's the loss to the child's formal education which is hard to quantify, but let's give it a nominal value of ?20 per child, that's another ?10k. So it's costing parents ?25k++ for the school to be closed for the day.

If Heber has to be used, why isn't it possible for the Heber School House to be used as the Polling station, with some temporary fencing to segregate the right hand portion of the playground (what do you reckon, ?2k would do it?) to keep the dangerous child-molesting public away from the poor defenceless pupils.

And after all that, how many people actually went in to vote during school hours, I wonder?

[rendelharris]

Reg, firstly as I said above the children aren't losing a day of school, the governing body will have to make up the day missed elsewhere in the school year, so even if your assumptions are correct (I'm sure even in this day and age one can keep a child entertained for a day for less than ?30 - the parks are still free) the parents will save your projected ?25K on another day in the year when the children would have been on holiday.

Secondly, and this is a wider issue, but the date of the election has been known for some months if not years past, it's not as though this was a snap general election. Parents have had plenty of notice to plan a holiday day or arrange care and ultimately schools are there to provide the statutory number of days of education, not be a babysitting service so that parents never have to take a day off.

That said it would be preferable if other venues could be found, so may I be the first to second rahrahrah's suggestion of putting the polling stations in the pubs.

[Reg Smeeton]

rendelharris - fair enough, if the day has to be made up at another time then I take back everything I said above. I was under the impression that this is just a day lost from the school calendar.

[pork chop]

James - please can you explain why each polling station has to be within a short distance of every house in that ward and hence so few venues are considered..? Perhaps you could let us know the relevant legislation.

Many of the people voting will lead busy lives commuting around London and beyond, with many hours a week travelling long distances. When it comes to voting why can?t they travel a few hundred meters further to keep a local school open..?

I don?t buy the argument that teaching days are made up. It does not seem sensible to disrupt education at key times, to then add on a bit in the summer when the education process may not be focused in the same way.

[Blah Blah]

So the elderly and disabled don't matter then pork chop? There's a very good why polling stations are within easy reach of everyone in the ward. Polling stations are open early and close late and those who can't get to the polling station on the day can vote by post. A day off school to be made up elsewhere is NOT going to disrupt anyones education, really it isn't.

[ianr]

Provisions on the designation of polling places, etc are in the Representation of the People Act 1983, sections 18 and 31: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/2/contents.

There's a statutory duty to review them every five years, though I don't think that precludes actions in between. The Electoral Commission guidance on reviews is at http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/electoral-administrator/polling-place-reviews. It usefully summarises most of the relevant law. It contains:

Polling station

2.16 A polling station is the room or area within the polling place where voting takes place. Unlike polling districts and polling places which are fixed by the local authority, polling stations are chosen by the relevant Returning Officer for the election.

...

Use of schools

5.22 It should be noted that for the purpose of taking the poll in England and Wales, the (Acting) Returning Officer is entitled to use free of charge schools maintained or assisted by a local authority as well as those schools that receive grants made out of moneys provided by Parliament. This includes academies and free schools.

 

[rendelharris]

pork chop Wrote:

> I don?t buy the argument that teaching days are

> made up. It does not seem sensible to disrupt

> education at key times, to then add on a bit in

> the summer when the education process may not be

> focused in the same way.

Firstly, the teaching day doesn't have to be added in the summer, it can be added any time during the year - in advance if desired. Secondly, every kid has the odd day off for illness, we get the occasional royal bank holiday etc - one day out of the year, especially at primary level (that's no disrespect to primary teachers - I did a little when training and I have utmost respect for them but it's not the same as a GCSE student having to miss the last revision lessons), will have no discernible effect on a child's education. I'm sure many parents organised museum visits etc which probasbly enhanced their education if anything.

[pork chop]

My argument is about two things:

1). School closures should be avoided

2). Other venues must be possible

The Castle Pub has a large room on the left hand side (with a stage). I have just looked at the small single step from the street. At most it is 15cm at one end and prob 10cm at the other. So with the maximum incline for a disabled ramp of 1:20 it would run at most 3 meters, and there is plenty of space for this in the area outside (although for a portable ramp over small height 1:12 may be permissible).

The height difference inside the door is at most 1cm.

So, a small amount of carpentry to equip the venue on the polling day and 450 children do not have their teaching week disrupted.

If the other bar were to stay open, it would be the happiest polling station in the country...

http://www.wheelchair-ramps.co.uk/special/maximum-slope-for-wheelchair-ramps/

[bawdy-nan]

pork chop, doesn't this just mean that one of the planned inset days will be missed? You already have to manage child care around the existing inset days.

[Blah Blah]

But how much would it cost the LA to hire that private venue? And of course the bar would have to be closed, so compensation for those losses too. then there are issues like security and insurance etc. There's a reason why polling stations are council owned buildings.

Amd as someone said above, there are other occasions when children force a change in schedule. Both my wife and I have had to rearrange shifts when our kids have been ill. You just get on with it. It's part of being a parent.

[James Barber]

Hi Pork Chop,

It is ridiculous that election day in the UK is the first Thursday and not the first Saturday or Sunday. It would totally avoid this type of issue and think how many thousands of schools are requisitioned for a day. Poking around the internet most western countries hold polls at weekends. But sufficient reasons to ensure a bill to change this could be talked out without three line whip exist - asking Jewish people to vote on Saturdays or Christians to vote on Sunday is deemed problematic despite the ability to postal vote.

And i totally agree we must all try harder to find suitable venues until election days are moved.

For Heber School organising step free access to the main Baptist church hall would seem a good solution. I have previously organised a stair lift to the basement but I really don't think it solves the issue.

Saying this. The ward boundary review are very likely to result in big changes to polling districts - this will be announced in September for the council to then organise new polling districts. So we'll have a better idea of whether Heber School still needs to be a polling station early 2017.

[flocker spotter]

The school where I work was used as a polling station - but the booths were set up in the nursery which could be isolated with a separate entrance. This way the rest of the school could carry on as normal. Couldn't Heber do something similar?

[pork chop]

There is a separate building on the Lordship Lane side of the Heber grounds, but it is only accessible from the playground. I would be surprised if this option hadn?t been looked at as a venue and the lack of separate access preventing its use...

[Loz]

P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

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> Alternatively, we could do as the Australians do and have elections on a Saturday.

Not only that, but you can vote at any polling station, not just the one you've been assigned. (Which mitigates most of the arguments about voting on Saturday.)

[BrandNewGuy]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Would have thought the whole thing could be done

> electronically by now.

>

> The technology is not quite there yet... both in

> terms of security and authentication. Estonia have

> online voting.. they have the authentication part

> sorted by means of a mandatory smart ID card, but

> the security is still a big concern.

A friend is a senior Electoral Policy bod in Whitehall and has for a while been privately frustrated about the lack of progress with e-voting. However, he says the issue is not so much with online security (if you can bank online and feel 99% safe, then you can certainly vote online). The issue is really how full of holes our traditional voting methods are, so to demand a very high level of security for e-voting will expose the current system for what it is, eg I can wander into a polling station and impersonate someone very easily...